CUTTING KENNEL COSTS AND MEDICINE

[rickdonini]

I am in the process of moving from owning and running 3 beagles for the last 6 years to breeding beagles. I have always used Frontline Plus (BLUE) and HeartGard Plus (GREEN) on a monthly basis year round. I will no longer be able to financially do that and I am trying to weigh my options. I have read a number of posts on using Ivermectin 1% orally at 1/10 cc per 10 lbs of weight but I would prefer to stay with the chewable tablets beacause they take care of some other worms as well and I dread dosing at such small quantities the liquid Ivermectin. I also prefer the 12 month approach (I am very conservative when it comes to my beagles health) rather than just administering it within 30 days of mosquito appearance.

My questions are as follows:

I can get the Heartgard Plus for the 26-50 lb level for $61 for 12; I can get the HeartGard Plus for the 51-100 lb level for $75 for 12. Can I just purchase the 51-100 level and cut the tablets in half and give to my bitches I have found a generic for the HeartGard Plus called TRI-HEART PLUS and can buy it at the 26-50 lb level for $35 for 12 and $48 for the 51-100 lb level for twelve. According to the specs I read the ingredients are the same for identical levels with both products (136 mcg Ivermectin/114 mg pyrantel as pamoate salt for the 26-50 lb and 272 mcg Ivermectin/227 mg pyrantel as pamoate salt for the 51-100 lb level). If the answer to my HeartGard question is yes you can cut it in half, could I use the same approach to the TRI-HEART brand and cut my costs further Also, has anyone used the TRI-HEART brand and what are your comments?

I can get the FRONTLINE PLUS BLUE level at $102 for 12 and the next level (PURPLE) for $104. Can I use 1/2 the purple tube per beagle since the contents of the PURPLE are double the BLUE contents Also, are there any products out there that are generic to Frontline Plus (9.8% Fiponil and 8.8% S-Methoprene) Also, can Frontline Plus be used on pregnant bitches (I could not find anything on there brochure that said so although Heart Guard Plus specifically says it can be used on pregnant bitches)

My last question is this: Since HeartGard Plus and Tri Heart Plus only address heartworm, hookworm and roundworms, what do I use for whipworms, tapeworms, coccidia, giardia etc.

Pray for me and my future dogs, I hope I can get this down to a science that I can afford

Thanks for reading this and I hope someone out there has some pity on this novice.

[green river]

Welcome tho the board. I can't answer all your questions but there are others on here that can. I can tell you that my vet will mix up some ivermectin for me. I can get 200 doses (for 20-23lbs) for $26.
For all other worms I use Prazivet Plus every 3 months. Can't remember the price but it was cheaper than the rest. Search for prazivet plus on this board and it should take you there. Hasn't been too long ago.
You can also save alot by giving your own shots. I have had good luck with jeffers.com
Good luck.

[green river]

Here is a link for the prazivet:

http://americanbeagler.huntingboards.co ... us#p237180

[rickdonini]

Thanks for the info on the prazivet plus. I wish I had a vet as cooperative as yours. I am going to have a hard time having her write me a script for heartworm medicine since she wants to sell me her heartguard for $6 a pop. Yes I know, another reason to orally give liquid Ivermectin since it does not require a prescription (it might come to that).

Can any one else comment on my other questions?

thanks

[Windkist]

Using Ivermectin (injectable) is as safe as heatguard or any of the other more expensive products. Ivermectin is the main ingredient in all of these. Studies show it to be very safe for dogs other than some collie breeds. I give 1/10th of a CC once per month on a dog biscuit. I do not mix it with anything at all.

Leah

[mo. beagler]

If it is cost cutting you want and healthy dogs I would follow the liguid ivermectin that Leah just gave you. You can also add some safeguard about 4 time a yr to catch what the ivermectin misses.. Give the injectable ivermectin ALL yr not just during skeeter season. Jeffers.com if you dont have a farm store near. I mix my ivermectin with gatoraid..Albon for coccidia if they get it.

[tinymwoods]

On the box of frontline it does say it can be used on pregnate and lactating bitches. Also be careful buying frontline online. Meriel (the maker of Frontline), has seen alot of counterfeits. This link tells about it: http://us.merial.com/merial_corporate/n ... US_EPA.asp
Below is some info I copied from some people selling frontline on e-bay:

"6 doses x .67ml = 4.02ml x (2) tubes = 12 doses" (for 0-22lbs.)

"FRONTLINE PRODUCES THEIR EXTRA LARGE TUBE 4.02 ML FOR EXTRA LARGE DOGS. THIS TUBE CONTAINS THE EXACT SAME INGREDIENTS AS FRONTLINE PLUS® MARKETED FOR SMALL DOGS. 1 DOSE OF FRONTLINE PLUS® FOR EXTRA LARGE DOGS HAS A LIQUID VOLUME OF 4.02 ML AND 1 DOSE OF FRONTLINE PLUS® FOR DOGS UP TO 22 POUNDS HAS A LIQUID VOLUME OF 0.67 ML. IF YOU DO THE MATH, YOU WILL SEE THAT YOU GET EXACTLY 6 DOSES FOR YOUR DOG UP TO 22 LBS FROM THE 4.02 ML EXTRA-LARGE DOG TUBE. THE RECCOMENDED DOSAGE FOR DOGS UP TO 22 POUND IS 0.67 ML. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT YOUR DOG GETS THE CORRECT DOSAGE."


"0-22 LBS .67 ML MONTHLY DOSE
23-44 LBS 1.34 ML MONTHLY DOSE
45-88 LBS 2.68 ML MONTHLY DOSE "

This is from Merial's website:
"• Gentle enough to use on puppies and kittens 8 weeks of age or older without weight restrictions

• Approved for use on pregnant or nursing mothers (approved for FRONTLINE Plus and Top Spot® only) "
http://frontline.us.merial.com/products/index.asp

Hope this is helpful!

[BriarCreekBeagles]

I buy the frontline at my local dog supply store and they sell the size dose for a beagle for 11.75 and they sell 4ml dose for 13.00 so I split it. You do the math, as far as Ivermectin goes I was thinking the same thing every body else posted and I buy it from rural king for 37.00 for a 50 ml bottle and at 1/10 a cc per 10 pounds 1 ml will do a 25 pound beagle for four months 4 X 50 is 200 doses that come out to 16 beagles a year for the price of one box of heartguard plus it helps keep fleas off of them and kills ear mite and a number of other mites that you may or may not encounter. as far as worms Chip Eisenhut carries a wormer that kills several parasites, round, hook, tape, whip, and several others all in one go for 3.75 a pill or 2.75 a pill if you order a quantity. and thats once every three months
another post on beagle health about coccidia says to use sumlet once a month in there water

[Larry G]

Here's what I do... buy a tube of 1.87% ivomec horse wormer at the feed store. Cost 5 bucks and will last a long time, since you only need to worm every 50 days, and it takes just a tiny dab for a beagle. Don't worry about the "so much for every ten pounds" thing, the recommended dosage is 4.5 micrograms of pure ivomec (not the paste) per Kg. of dog... a microgram is one one millionth of a gram, and a Kg. is 2.2 pounds.... you can't measure that so just give each dog a tiny dab...about the size of an english pea is fine... so much for heartworm prevention.

Now, the prazivet is fine for most all other worms but you will need some Nemex or strongid for your puppies. Strongid T is much cheaper, but I use the nemex. Safeguard goat suspension is a good wormer for hook, round and whip if you need a change from prazivet and we all should rotate wormers. Shoot about 5 CC down a beagle's throat, most like to do it 3 days in a row feeling that is more effective. The active ingredient is fenbendazole, which is pretty safe even if you overdose a little.... So much for intestinal worms.

Now for fleas, I buy Bayer Tree and Shrub liquid at Lowe's. I shoot about 10 CC along the dog's back once a month. It won't prevent ticks, so if you have a tick problem you are going to have to add permethrin or Sevin dust or some other tick repellent. Oh yes the active ingredient is imidocloprid same as in what the vet will sell you for a lot more money.

Buy your puppy shots online not at the feed store. Forget the 7 and 8 ways, use the 5 way from Intervet or Ft. Dodge. I shoot at 6,9, and 12 weeks. Other people start sooner.

You don't know whom to believe I know, because on here, everybody is an expert. Good luck sorting it out.

[rickdonini]

Thanks everyone. Larry G you have been especiallly informative. I care very much for my beagles (as I am sure most everyone out there does) and I want them taken care of.The potential for enourmous vet bills with breeding beagles scares me and I want to do everything I can to avoid them (I spent over $3000 in vet and medicine bills last year for my three beagles). Thanks again everyone.

[PLATEAUBEAGLER]

i do the same as Larry and buy most of my stuff from Jeffers also, they have some real deals on shots and medication for your pups or hounds. it don't take long to add up at the vet and sometimes it can't be helped but like you i try to prevent before hand, that Bayer's Tree and Shrub works good for fleas only and if you don't get rid of them you will have a tapeworm problem for sure, then you will need some prazitabs for that, at least thats what i use and is easy to get cheap if you need it.
When i got pups whelping it's good to keep some Nutri Drops on hand when one get behind{ runt}
just give a few drops and you can't tell it from the others at feeding time. this stuff works wonders and cheap $17.95 for 8 oz bottle and it last a long time a buddy of mine gave some of this to a lifeless pup and in 5 mins this pup was nursing with the others and he pulled it out i wouldn't have believed it if i hadn't seen it with my own eyes.
I like the panacur for a wormer and ivomectin for a heartwormer, this pretty much covers all.
I always start pups on DI-METHOX 2 tablespoons per gallon of water this helps build up the pups anti bodies for coccidia and works good as a protocol but won't cure it if you already have it then if that happens i use Albon and then you got big bucks$$$$$$$$ if you got a big litter plus you must isolate them from all other pups it can wipe a hole litter out within 3 days. At the last place i lived i had a litter of 10 and lost all but 2 in just days and i spent a pretty penny trying to save them and keeping the others healthy from the ones who had it. This was a big learning experience for me so when i moved and built my new kennels on a pad i said i would prevent this from happening again through protocol protection in advance.
I'm not a vet just my 2 cents on what works for me.
Hope this helps.

[Richard]

If it is cost cutting you want and healthy dogs I would follow the liguid ivermectin that Leah just gave you. You can also add some safeguard about 4 time a yr to catch what the ivermectin misses.. Give the injectable ivermectin ALL yr not just during skeeter season. Jeffers.com if you dont have a farm store near. I mix my ivermectin with gatoraid..Albon for coccidia if they get it.

I agree with this. I buy ivomic at my farm store.

I mix ivomic with milk and give to my dogs, by mouth, they like it better with milk.

I buy safeguard for goats at the farm store for all other worms.

Frontline plus also from the farm store, I buy the one for the largest dog, and split it five ways for my five dogs. I draw it into syringe remove the needle and apply to dog.

I also buy all my shots and give to my pups and hounds, much cheaper than a vet.

$3000 is a hugh price to spend in a year on three or four dogs, IMHO.

[beagle_rescue_guy]

Frontline/Advantage/Advantix/etc are all sold by weight, but the actual dose is calculated for the average surface area of dog if that makes sense.

So, you can't take a Frontline for 85 lbs and split it between four 20 lb dogs....you can actually split it six ways.

The beauty is, they give you a nice little dosage chart. For example, with Advantage. A 20 lb Beagle will be dosed 1.0 mL. A 56 lb dog will be given 4.0 mL. So, your dog weighs 24 lbs....give it a little more than 1.0 mL. The open tube of advantage will be good for quite a while if stored in the fridge in a capped syringe. Just put a thin needle on it.

[sbadger]

I got on www,beaglesunlimited.com this told me just what I needed and I give ivomec with milk to 1/10 of cc ever month on the 1st and give Safe-guard every other month on the 15 and I give it with milk to in a bowl it has fenbendazole for killing tape worm and other stomach worms for Beef & DairyCattle and Goat

[PLATEAUBEAGLER]

is anyone using the niomectin instead of the ivermectin. Does it work as good and is the dosage the same? Excuse spelling on 1st 1 not sure if thats how it's spelled.
I know here it's a couple bucks cheaper on the 50ml bottle.