Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

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Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby RunninHard » Wed May 26, 2010 1:30 pm

Is this safe or not ? I have heard both yes and no
I know the amount and times to give just dont know if its safe for pregnant bitchs ,0.1 ml per 10#s every 30 days
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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby allniter » Wed May 26, 2010 2:30 pm

it is safe --it take [62] before the pups are born --I don't want my dog to go long in the sunner with out IVOMEC
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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby Blackwater » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:51 pm

How young can you start giving IVOMEC?

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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby RunninHard » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:19 pm

I started my pup at 4 months
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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby sanfordssj » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:35 am

Don't give the female ANYTHING while she is with pups! if she has been treated with Ivomec up till this point than there is no reason to worry about it from the time bred until pups are 6 weeks. If you feel she needs it than give it to her, but don't come back on here when you have a few pups not make it, she has a small litter, or something odd happens that you cant figure out why. This stuff is poison and is lethal if given wrong, so common sense should tell you that it can do no good for a litter.

Don’t get me wrong i use it, but i don’t take chances with it either, and i use a smaller does than most because i believe it burns kidneys up, etc...it is something that works, but can be like playing a game of Russian roulette.
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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby jdmart » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:09 am

Steve,

I have read this post several times over the past couple of weeks and was waiting for someone to say it wasn't safe to give a prenant bitch Ivomec. I didn't feel like it was. I just wasn't going to be the first to state it. You are right it is strong stuff. If pups are not to be given it until 4 weeks to 4 months depending on opinions, why would you give it to a pregnant bitch. There are some wormers that are safe to give to a pregnant bitch now but the list is very small.
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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby TheLittleBlackBook » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:43 pm

sanfordssj wrote:Don't give the female ANYTHING while she is with pups! if she has been treated with Ivomec up till this point than there is no reason to worry about it from the time bred until pups are 6 weeks. If you feel she needs it than give it to her, but don't come back on here when you have a few pups not make it, she has a small litter, or something odd happens that you cant figure out why. This stuff is poison and is lethal if given wrong, so common sense should tell you that it can do no good for a litter.
Don’t get me wrong i use it, but i don’t take chances with it either, and i use a smaller does than most because i believe it burns kidneys up, etc...it is something that works, but can be like playing a game of Russian roulette.




I know you mean well, but this is just plain mis-information. It is important in forums like these, when people who really haven't taken the time to read-up on meds, that they should just step back (and not up) to "give advice" on the finer points of what to do (and what not to do) when using meds.

Don't get me wrong, being cautious with medications is a good thing ... and it is true that ivermectin can be poison (if given to the wrong breed, etc.), but to say, "Don't give the female anything while she's with pups!" is just plain wrong and in point of fact is terribly bad advice. The key with dispensing any medications is to actually know what you're doing, and to actually know which drugs to use, and for what purpose, not to just shrink back in terror at the thought of using "any" drugs on a pregnant or whelping bitch. Because the exact opposite of what you have said is the truth: it is critical to treat your bitches with the right meds, to clean her out and to create a disease/parasite-free environment for her upcoming pups.

First of all, there are other wormers besides ivermectin. Second, even ivermectin is okay to give to most pregnant bitches. It is true that Ivermectin should NOT be given directly to pups until they're 4 months of age, but giving it to the mother prior to a breeding (or even while pregnant) won't hurt the pups. Still, if you are shell-shocked at the idea of using ivermectin, why don't you use a mild wormer like pyrantel or panacur? Because the truth is it is negligent NOT to worm your bitch prior to conception, during her gestation, and every 2 weeks after delivery until 8 weeks of age. And I will tell you why it is negligent.

To begin with, I don’t think people really stop to consider how bad roundworm (and even hookworm) can get in a bitch, while she’s bred, and how easily it is transmitted to the unborn pups. Even in the most regularly-wormed bitch, there will remain worms that are “cystic” in her muscles that no wormers will get. When a bitch comes in heat, and gets bred, hormones are released which in turn cause the cystic worms to activate and spread. These liberated worms go right to the unborn pups as well as to the whelped pups via the milk.

One single female roundworm can lay 100,000 eggs a day! Can you imagine how many eggs get laid in the bitch, and in her pups, if a totally incompetent “owner” waits until 6 WEEKS to worm the bitch and her litter? This is terrible husbandry practice! You want to talk about “something odd” happening and losing pups, well no wonder! The pups are dying of worm infestation!

Proper animal husbandry practice would be the exact opposite of your advice, sir, namely: (1) worm the heck out of your bitch prior to breeding; (2) continue to worm every 2 weeks during gestation; and (3) worm the bitch and her pups every 2 weeks after delivery. THAT is the way to keep the mama and her pups worm-free and healthy. Meanwhile, not worming a bitch at all during pregnancy, and then waiting until 6 weeks after delivery to worm her and the pups, is the way to make sure all of them are utterly miserable and bursting at the seams with worms.

Good luck,

Jack


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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby Lawsonsbeagles » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:02 am

This may be a stupid question to some but i intend no harm but does it ever cross anyones mind how dogs in the past or even wild canines today like coyotes or even bobcats for the matter survive without being worming? Dont get me wrong i worm the heck out of all my dogs especially before pregnancy and even carrying pups. I cant stand the thought of a dog having even a single worm! It just made me think one time a old timer ask me that about wild animals. I know nature has a way of thinning out the pack and worms may be one way but you see that stray pregnant dog out there and she may have 10 pups hanging from her healthy as a tick and they will all survive and then we as breeders take all the precautions and still lose pups... Just a thought. Sorry to jump in on this post but it kinda fit in with the worming question.
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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby pztrailman » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:51 pm

Why sould you wait until the pup is 4 mon. old before you give them Ivomec?
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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby Spruce Ridge Beagler » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:12 pm

I have used it on pregnant and nursing bitches with no side effects. Just had one drop 8 healthy pups, I know several others that do as well but it is your choice. You could always ask your vet.
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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby TheLittleBlackBook » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:58 am

Lawsonsbeagles wrote:This may be a stupid question to some but i intend no harm but does it ever cross anyones mind how dogs in the past or even wild canines today like coyotes or even bobcats for the matter survive without being worming?Dont get me wrong i worm the heck out of all my dogs especially before pregnancy and even carrying pups. I cant stand the thought of a dog having even a single worm! It just made me think one time a old timer ask me that about wild animals. I know nature has a way of thinning out the pack and worms may be one way but you see that stray pregnant dog out there and she may have 10 pups hanging from her healthy as a tick and they will all survive and then we as breeders take all the precautions and still lose pups... Just a thought. Sorry to jump in on this post but it kinda fit in with the worming question.


Actually, many wild animals do die from the diseases we medicate our own dogs against. In fact, most wild dogs are perpetually in some state of malaise, and very rarely found in a state of optimal health. The bodies of wild dogs don't necessarily perish due to parasite loads they carry (though some do), but neither are they in a state of primo condition, either. In short, the wild dogs that survive parasite loads build tolerance to their parasites, so there is truth to your question. But there is another angle to this as well, for one of the primary reasons confined animals need worming (even more than a wild dog) is because of their confinement. When any dog is confined, every one of the worm eggs deposited by their worm load stays in the same pen with the dog, giving the animal no way to avoid re-infestation. By contrast, in nature, wild dogs move around a lot and so most of the shed worm eggs get left behind, so the animal will not be forever re-infesting himself, at least not to the degree as is what happens with a confined dog (especially one that does not get wormed regularly).

As if that weren't enough reason to help a confined animal rid itself of parasites, remember also that wild animals aren't going to be transferring their worms to YOU! The first thing we do with any wild meat we score is cook it! Why? To rid the meat of worms, of course. We also aren't going to take a wild dog into our homes and let him sleep in our beds. Thus another of the major reasons we worm our domesticated animals isn't just for them, it is because they are in constant contact with us ;)

And I sure would rather be playing with a set of pups that were raised in a properly-constructed above-ground pen (that allows the stools to drop to the ground) ... where the litter has been heavily-wormed every two weeks ... than I would want to be playing with a set of pups that were raised in a dirt-floor pen (where the egg-infested stools get mixed with the dirt and spread over every pup) ... especially where the litter was never wormed one time :shock:




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pztrailman wrote:Why sould you wait until the pup is 4 mon. old before you give them Ivomec?


Well, the whole reason ivermectin is safe for (most) higher mammals ... while being deadly to lower animals ... is because ivermectin (in the proper doses) is NOT able to cross the "blood-brain barrier" in most higher mammals ... while lower animals do not have this defense and so the ivermectin is able to invade their brain and nervous systems. Consequently the brain and the entire neurological systems of lower animals completely shut down ... while the higher mammal is unaffected. This is why the drug can be given to a mammal, and does nothing to it, while so many of the lower parasites on the mammal die-off.

However, very young pups are not fully-developed, and so they are susceptible to the penetration of the ivermectin into their brain and nervous systems. This is why we wait for pups to get some age on them first, before introducing ivermectin into their not-fully-developed systems.

It is also important to realize that, at very high doses, ivermectin is able to penetrate the blood-brain barrier of even adult animals ... and (for whatever reason) it is able to do this with collies too. Thus ivermectin still needs to be dosed prudently and within accepted ranges.

Hope this helps,

Jack




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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby Lawsonsbeagles » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:50 pm

jack, my post wasnt meant to support not worming or not vaccinating confined or free roaming animals, but to share a thought. i agree 100% with everything you said i was just sharing a thought. I to keep pups above ground, wormed and vaccinated, but i still dont let them sleep in the bed with me no matter how many times i worm them or how vaccinated they are. Truth is once a dogs feet hits the ground you probably shouldnt even let it in your living quarters. Thats just my opinion though. Thanks for replying.
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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby eddywilliams » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:56 am

What is everyones feelings on safe guard for worming?
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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby Bobby Vest » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:36 pm

Eddy I have often wondered why so many people talk about safeguard to worm their dogs. I always just walk in the vets office and tell them how many pounds of dogs I want to worm and they sell panacur to me reasonably and I do all my own worming. Same way with Ivomec. I just think it's so hard to know exactly how much safeguard you are giving them and with the liquid panacur there's no guessing.
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Re: Ivomec to bred/pregnant bitchs

Postby big mike 50 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:54 pm

This isn't beagle related but I know as black book stated ivomec can't be used on collies but I have an Australian Shepard and I was wondering how closely they are related to Collies and if I could use Ivomec on him.
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