Best way to start ?

[Rockdog]

Hey all. I just picked up a training collar,and was wondering. What is the best way to work it into a training program. I guess what I am wondering most, is how to introduce the dog to the collar. Should I start with small behavior adjustments around the yard first ? Before heading afield and launching into a surprise attack on the little fella. I realize a collar can do more harm than good if missused,so I will appreciate any guidance on the subject. Thanks a bunch,Rockdog.

[Red Briar Kennels]

I don't get to this site much anymore and was just cruising through and saw that no one had responded to you yet, so I thought I would explain how we used to do it here. I used to professionally train beagles for people for a number of years. Since I have sold my kennel, etc., but still enjoy helping folks get started if possible.

I always started off letting the dog wear the collar while taking to the field with no intensions on using it. This allows the dog to get used to the "feel" of the collar with no adverse effects. Since you did not express what age the dog was or where it is at in it's training....we'll assume that your dog is running..or learning, but maybe not finished. With a dog at this stage, hopefully it knows the basic commands such as come, heal or whatever you use to recall the dog or get him to return to you.

I always used a Tri-tronics classic 70 collar. I would put the collar on just prior to going running and would remove when we got to the truck or back at the kennels. Hopefully your dog loves to go to the field and it is a positive thing. He will begin to associate the collar with positive outcomes and events. This collar had a button that would just beep and one that would deliver correction. When I would start to introduce the hound to the collar, I would use the return command and as he was getting closer I would beep him a couple of times. I would make sure the dog was in sight and well within hearing range. Also I would use comforting and energetic verbal praise for doing so. This is something that he should be doing on his own without any outside correction. Watch his reaction to the collar. Don't over do it. Do it for a few times and let it go at that. The very next outing...maybe use the same....a few times here and there, not too much. Next time out continue to increase in use but moderately. I would continue use of the "beep" fuction throughout the dog's career for recall. This was useful when the hound was out of yelling range or high winds, etc. and it was hard to hear. He hears that collar and starts looking for you.

When you feel the dog is comfortable wearing the collar, etc., start using the collar as a correction tool, but start light and again...if possible, have a line of sight with the dog. Watch his reaction. I always felt this was important due to the fact that some hounds freak out. By letting him immediately see you, may avoid him running off into the sunset. He would most likely run to you for "safety" than down the road. Then praise him for doing so. At this point you need to exercise some discipline and patience. Pick your battles. Some guys would correct the dog for everything they did wrong or for everything they wanted the dog to do. They would call the dog to maybe get into a brush pile for instance...if the dog wasn't moving quick enough, they would shock the dog. Give the hound a little time to comply with what you want him to do. That's not to say that I would let the dog do whatever they wanted...afterall, this hound is on my time, not theirs....but be reasonable.

If at a lower level of stimulation and he didn't respond you could bump up the correction until he did. I never used any more than what it took to get his attention. At that point then, you were relying on your basic "yard" skills in getting him to come back into you. Shocking him as he's running away only makes things worse. Do not shock out of anger as I have seen many guys do this as well. Again with the patience.

Let me interupt myself here by saying that unless he was chasing known off-game, I would usually begin correcting for not coming in to me when called. We all know hounds. They get caught up in doing what they want to do....or maybe you have a hard headed hound...this is a good time to introduce a low level correction. Beep first....if no reasonable response, then a little correction, followed by a whole lot of praise when Fido comes into you. Sometimes I would even beep them as they were coming as to add comformation to what he was doing. You want the beep to be an attention getter, give comformation and be a confidence builder so to speak I guess. It will also begin to "warn" the dog as to listen to what you are saying and obey...or suffer consequences.

The only time I would really "lean" on a hound is if they began running trash. At that point, I really wanted that dog to have a bad day so to speak. I wanted to get the point accross immediately, quickly and as clear as possible that what he was doing is a big no no. But again, you have to be sure without a shadow of a doubt. Anyone that has owned, trained or ran dogs for any length of time will tell you that a dog can make a liar of you. That line he took looks just like a straight line deer chase....................only to see a rabbit jump out later. You have GOT TO BE SURE of what the hound is running.

The bottom line here is have reasonable expectations. Have patience. Exercise common sense and be consistant. What is bad or good today, has to be the same two months from now. To do otherwise sends the dog mixed signals. For example, they can't reason why it's not o.k. to go into the house when they're muddy and bloody, when earlier it was o.k. (they were clean) to them, it's the same. Also, not to sound mean, but I never lost an argument with a hound. Make sure you have the means to back up what you say and never give them an upper hand. A dog looks to you for guidance I always felt. If you do not lead....trust me they will. Again, not something you want to get started or have to correct later.

I applogize for such a winded post. Good luck with your hound. Start small and work up. Both you and the dog will get there......it just won't be over night.

Steve Cellar with what used to be Red Briar Kennels

[Rockdog]

Thank you for the very informative post. I enjoyed it. I can see already the patience thing being paramount. It is SO hard not to correct the hound out of frustration or anger. He can sure push my buttons. But,he is a pretty good boy in general,and seems to have a little brains to boot. My biggest problem is when he is first taken out of the kennel. He basically looses his mind for a little while. After he calms down some,he is a pretty good boy. But, until he burns off that initial burst of sillyness, you can forget verbal commands. Very frustrating.
I had heard they can go over the hill on you the first time they get corrected. I started a week or so ago in the garage. It is fairly large,and lots of things in there to take his attention from me. In a couple evenings, he would come and sit infront of me with the tone. I would let him get busy with something in the garage,walk to the other corner and call while hitting the tone. It didn't take much stimulation to get him to respond. I was quite pleased with him. Outside is another story though. I have alot of work to do there yet. Patience patience patience. I keep telling myself this. Last evening I just took the collar off rather than get heavy handed with him. I got him to sit infront of me after a frustrating session,and figured I would end it on a good note for the day.
I was told you have to be smarter than the dog you are training. I'm not sure who is winning the game at this point. There may be alot of truth to that old saying.

[Red Briar Kennels]

Another tool I sometimes used that I stole from the bird trainer's....is a check cord. It's basically a long leash...maybe 25' or so. He still has some freedom, but can be pulled in if need be. This is only to get the dog coming to you "outside". Preferably use in low cut grass, yard or whatever. I wouldn't recommend using in the brush as it gets tangled up. Get the basics down first and get to the point where he will mind you. I have had to work on obediance issues with some hounds for approx. a month or two before we ever moved to the bunny basics. I know it seems like you can be killing two birds with one stone....but remember what I said about winning every argument and being in control. Everytime you give him a command and you do not have the capacity to make him fully listen...you're sending him mixed signals. Not intentionally mind you, but it will cost you more time eventually at some point more than likely.

For instance, when I would call a dog to me...I would make him come all the way to me. Not some of the way, not part way...not 10' from me......ALL the way to my hand. There were times I would give the dog a command to just check in with me after being out in the brush and I couldn't find him right off maybe. Then after I gave the command, I would see him going through some brush. I didn't really need him to come to me due to the fact I then knew where he was at. But...I had already given the command. Therefore, I made him come in to me just because I said so and did not want to break that continuity. You have got to be consistant every time. It sounds anal....even a little rediculous...but I guarantee you, you will be glad that you went the extra mile when hunting season rolls around....or you get near a highway or railroad tracks, etc. and you really need him to listen to you for his own good.

[Beagleman63]

Hey Steve! How've you been? Steve Cellar started a few pups for me when he had his kennel, and if he were in business today, I'd have a few more to send him! He's a very knowledgable hondsman! Bill Ennis.