The American Beagler Forum

Help! This dog was delivered to me by Merle Crain on 06-11-03. I paid for this dog because Merle told me he was AKC registered, from the Bramlett line. I have yet to recieve papers, even though I have tried to contact Merle a number of times. I need to find out if this dog is actually registered and am looking for the former owner or anyone who might have pedigree information on him. He is supposed to be 16 months old. Does anyone out there recognize this dog? If so please drop me a line or reply here.

You might try Blackdirt Beagles on Rabbithuntingonline.com's bullentin board. He runs the Bramlett line.

ALSWAMPER wrote:You might try Blackdirt Beagles on Rabbithuntingonline.com's bullentin board. He runs the Bramlett line.

Thanks Alswamper, but I have been in contact with Blackdirt, I have purchased some great dogs from him. This dog definately not out of his line of Bramlett's. Merle told me Bramlett was on the bottom for this dog, but I have seen no proof of it as yet. I would NOT have taken this dogs without the papers but I sent someone to pick him up for me and this is how this started. Now I have the dog it is paid for, I have to try to make the best of it. Merle is not coming up with any answers for me, he will not even return my calls.

Hey Trackman,

I have a kennel full of Merles old stock of dogs from back in the day. Back in the day when Merle bred, competed and ran World Champion class hounds. Your dog looks exactly like Merle's old red dogs. He looks exactly like the ones I have. Is he hard hunting, fast, big bawl mouth? If he's out of Merle's red dogs, he's right. These dogs were AKC at one time, they are now NKC/ARHA registered. If you need more info on this line of dog, send me an email.

Nate, BJK

BJK,
I would love to get any information I can on this dog. I am confused though, Merle told me this was from a guy 40 miles from him. If this dog was out of his stock why not just bring the papers? I got the story that they were accidently left at home.......Is this normal for Merle? Or should I hold onto the hope that I may someday actually get papers on this dog?What I would really like to find out is who actually owned this dog? The dogs that you have mentioned, are they out of Bramlett stock? Because I was told that is what this dog was, one of the biggest reasons I purchased him. Thanks for responding!!! If you happen to talk to Merle tell him I am still waiting, but after all this time, I am hardly counting on anything. Do you know if there has been an accident or something involving him? I leave messages constantly he is never home and he never returns my calls.

hey mike- just wandering how katie was working out. i had her a bit heavy but i bet she still did pretty decent. hope you get your papers from merle. situations like that are a bad deal.

Brian,
Katie is GREAT , boy is she one heck of a hunter!! I would have to say she is my favorite! She is in great shape, been running like a champ! Dozer and the pup Boogie are also great dogs. You breed one heck of a rabbit dog! Yeah this situation with Merle is driving me nuts, when we spoke about this dog he assured me it had papers, said it was Bramlett on the bottom. I keep calling and am getting nowhere. It is pretty bad that someone who has been in business for 20 years would deal with people in this manner. I am VERY surprised. I should of just asked you where I could purchase a good male.
Thanks,
Mike

ive never dealt with merle personally but i have heard mixed results about him. i dont know anyone around me that actually deals with merle. wish i could help out.

im glad to hear about katie. we had a lot of fun with her.

Mike, he has a head and ears exactly like my Bramlett male, and other slight physical nuances Bramlett hound owners would probably pick up on, so between that and geography, there's a good chance he is Bramlett bred. I would question his age. It could be his coloring, but he apears a little grey around the muzzle to be 16 months old. That doesn't usually come out on dogs with a red muzzle until they approach 4-6 years. Next time you have him to the vet, have the vet age him by the wear of his teeth. He'll get real close - within 6 months or so if the hound isn't over 5.

Here's a body shot of my ol' red boy - note the muzzle shape, longer loin down into knee, etc.:



Check out the head study - in particular the skull shape and ear set and length of ear:



Brian, whattya think? You see any "Bramlett" similar traits between these two or am I maybe looking for something that's not there?

In any event Mike, I hope you get the info you are seeking. I'll help all I can.

as far as his "build" goes, he very well could be bramlett bred, but as for color, i have never seen any colored like that except yours bev. but if he is an outcross then the color could come from the other side. hes got enough features to be bramlett bred, but without papers or the previous owner to verify its kinda hard to say. i dont know merle at all, but as big of a setup as he has, i would think he would have contacted you by now. its my understanding thats all he does, is sell dogs, so i would think he would check messages often. i know most of the local guys around here, but none that i know of do any business with merle. seemes most of his stuff (that i know of) is sold out of the area. jeff chasteen might be able to help if anyone knows how to get ahold of him. he lives down that way and used to deal with merle some i think. once in awhile i believe hes on the board with an ad every now and then.

I dont know Merle, did see him and heard about him at the Crittenden hunt several months ago. Basically a guy who makes his living selling and trading dogs should return calls. IF he dont back the dogs he sells he will probably not be selling many dogs to people who visit this website. Know give the man the benefit of the doubt and repost your first one on the searching for info, and just talking dogs with Merle Craine as the topic. I will bet a dollar that you will get some returned calls for the good or bad. I wouldnt slander the man just say you are trying to contact him and that you are still waiting on the papers for your hound.

Just my advice. But I think it would work.

Brian, Redd gets his color from his mama Rch, Bch CPC Red Cupcakes, who was a sister to Toy. There is a big male in KY by the name of Red Toyhawk who won Western KY's first Plan A trial. I don't know what color he is - I'm assuming red, but he's a full brother (of sorts...sisters bred to same male) to Redd. I'd like to see a picture of him. As I understand it, the Bramlett hounds were mostly black and tan.

Mike, MasonsBeagles' suggestion is a good one. Let us know how it turns out. I'm suppose to pick up the hound you sent me this Sunday, I'll dig up what I can.

Thanks to all of you who have replied. It is nice that I can get answers from people who don't even know me, but are willing to take the time to respond and try to help all the way out here in NJ. I think that is a really great thing! If it was not for this board I would still be sitting here wondering, at least now I have some answers and a place to ask them. Bev I can see some resemblances in the dogs, but on closer inspection I notice some differences also, but it could be from outcrossing like Brain said. I am holding onto the hope that he is Bramlett, but without papers and a pedigree I will not ever be certain. Unless of course I get lucky and hear from a former owner. Funny thing is I searched the forums using Merle Crain's name as the keyword and this is what I found: "Merl Crain had a problem with AKC long ago" Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2003 by Gill--"These dogs seem to done real good back then. I talked to one guy and he says Mr. Crain doesn't have the same line of dogs that he had back then." Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:48 pm Post subject: Crain's HH---"Merle Crain doesn't have a good track record of hauling dogs."Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2003 S. Preston
Here is the one that really worries me on AKC suspensions readily avaiable on the Internet: Crain Merle O. Laclede IL suspension start date 4/7/97 end date 4/7/07 Beagle
for failure to comply with recordkeeping and identification requirements.

After seeing all this the feeling I have about the unreturned calls just gets worse. I bought this dog specifically from Merle because an old timer here in NJ spoke so highly of him and his dogs, when I intially talked talked to Merle about buying this dog he was well aware that I was looking for a red Bramlett male, with papers. He assured me I would love this dog. From here on in when I get a name recommended to me I will search boards like this first. The only reason I had not was I had such great buying experiences with people like Brian Joiner and Bryan Pucka, that I was riding high on trust. I think I am going to take the Masons Beagles advice and do a post like he advised. Thanks for all the help again!!

Mike, it's old news that Merle fell out of grace with the AKC. He is up front about that fact and evens talks about it in his ad, so I figured if yuns had agreed up front it would be an AKC Bramlett dog you were to get, I knew he'd have to go outside his own kennel to get one for you. That's what I figured he'd done. Whether due to a misunderstanding or whatever - maybe he thought you wanted the bloodline more than papers, I don't know. Perhaps he could get the dog now while he was heading your way and the papers later, can't say. I know a lot of folks are waiting on AKC papers for their hounds right now. I am too, so if this is the case, there's no telling how long it could be. I don't think I'd count on them though in your case with this hound.

How do you like the dog? Is he a keeper as far as a good rabbit dog? He's a good-lookin' cuss.

Bev,
That red hound is a dead ringer for a Rising Sun hound. I have built my kennel around Rising Sun and while he may not be one, as I said he is as close to looking like one than any hound I have ever seen on this site. I agree he is a real looker and I too would like to know more about how he runs. Does he run to catch, have a chop mouth and lots of hunt? These are traits that all my Rising Sun hounds exibit.
NYH