"Good Breeders"
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
Instinct
On a lighter note.. Not sure if anyone would count this as instinct but, today as I'm watching my beagles run the 1/2 acre fenced yard I notice one is stalking a bird on the clothes line.. lol I think she even pointed. Shall I put her down?
Life's a trip
but it doesn't come with a map
but it doesn't come with a map
Tom wrote "I would doubt very much that she fosters hunting as much as someone that hunts,,,, Daah!!!! " Thanks so much for making my only point for me.
Tom also wrote "What makes you think "show breeders" don'thunt?????? " HMMM
And this"I can tell you this,, if you spend more days in the field than this "show breeder", you do not work for a living. so there,,pht-pht "
And he has this to say when I said I train my hounds every chance I get "I don't, believe it or not, I do have a life. Even been known to go duck hunting instead of rabbit hunting (different kind of dog to train up for that)"
This is the cancer Leah, people who want nothing more than to argue for the sake of arguing, or am I the only one who sees the contradictions here.
TC I hear you, but one of the formats has to be more important to you than the other, what do you do with the dog who has no hunt but awesome conformation? And what would all of us hunters do with our dogs that aren't Tri-color, is there any blankets or blue/red ticks in the show ring?
It would seem the tolerance for anything outside the norm in the show fraternity is minimal at best. Why else are %99 of all Beagles, Harriers and Fox Hounds Tri's. I simply am stating that the tolerance for anyhting other than conformation is about the same as the tolerance for color variance, if I'm wrong someone other than Leah and Tom let me know.
Tom also wrote "What makes you think "show breeders" don'thunt?????? " HMMM
And this"I can tell you this,, if you spend more days in the field than this "show breeder", you do not work for a living. so there,,pht-pht "
And he has this to say when I said I train my hounds every chance I get "I don't, believe it or not, I do have a life. Even been known to go duck hunting instead of rabbit hunting (different kind of dog to train up for that)"
This is the cancer Leah, people who want nothing more than to argue for the sake of arguing, or am I the only one who sees the contradictions here.
TC I hear you, but one of the formats has to be more important to you than the other, what do you do with the dog who has no hunt but awesome conformation? And what would all of us hunters do with our dogs that aren't Tri-color, is there any blankets or blue/red ticks in the show ring?
It would seem the tolerance for anything outside the norm in the show fraternity is minimal at best. Why else are %99 of all Beagles, Harriers and Fox Hounds Tri's. I simply am stating that the tolerance for anyhting other than conformation is about the same as the tolerance for color variance, if I'm wrong someone other than Leah and Tom let me know.
Look at the site at the bottom of this post and see if you can tell that I hunt.
this realy is getting to the point of being stupid ya know.
this realy is getting to the point of being stupid ya know.
HmmmmWhy else are %99 of all Beagles, Harriers and Fox Hounds Tri's
CH Copper Rose Nothing But Net (Patrick)
CH SweetBreez Erin Go Braugh (Peanut)
CH Windflower It's A Beautiful Day (Morgan)
CH Copper Rose Looney Tunes (Poo)
CH Seventhson's Shotgun Sophie
CH SweetBreez Erin Go Braugh (Peanut)
CH Windflower It's A Beautiful Day (Morgan)
CH Copper Rose Looney Tunes (Poo)
CH Seventhson's Shotgun Sophie
beagles
Sav you only talk to hear you gums flap ! Why try and divide people who work hard at the part of owning a beagle that interest them. Some hunt some Show some just own a dog they love. Why must we all look at dogs the way you do ? Leah does what she likes ! TC does what he likes ! Why not do what you like ? Show dogs and hunting dogs can come together ask Don McVay of Sundown Kennels. Good Breeders are out there, do not pick on good breeders because they do not breed your way !
Paul Moore
http://www.moorebeagles.com
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box
http://www.moorebeagles.com
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box
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Stumbo's Beagles
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:50 pm
- Location: Kentucky
Hey take a look at my pup. She is 9 months old. Tell me how she would do in a show. I know its hard to tell from a pic but please try. She is doing good on the running a rabbit. I just hope she keeps up the good work. I am going to take her this fall to the trial and would like to know if I might have a chance in the show part as well. Thank you
[img][img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/417949.jpg[/img][/img]
[img][img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/417949.jpg[/img][/img]
J. Stumbo
Stumbo, your little bitch looks pretty good to me, as far as bench shows goes it all depends on the judge. Every judge sees something differently. But in my opinion she has a ver good chance of getting high rewards. Good luck to ya. She is pretty.
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be
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Keystone Kid
- Posts: 940
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:08 pm
- Location: North Central INDIANA
- Contact:
While the cats away the mice will play 
I’ve been out running my dogs for 5 hour, like the rest of you should be doing. Then I come back and find out that I missed so much.
Keep it up!
I’m enjoying it all!
I’ve been out running my dogs for 5 hour, like the rest of you should be doing. Then I come back and find out that I missed so much.
Keep it up!
I’m enjoying it all!
* I enjoy meeting new Beaglers & Squirrel Dog Owners. It's a blessing to find other's with such unique interests.
* I also enjoy helping future hunters.
http://www.heasleyskeystonekennels.com
* I also enjoy helping future hunters.
http://www.heasleyskeystonekennels.com
"It would seem the tolerance for anything outside the norm in the show fraternity is minimal at best. Why else are %99 of all Beagles, Harriers and Fox Hounds Tri's. I simply am stating that the tolerance for anyhting other than conformation is about the same as the tolerance for color variance, if I'm wrong someone other than Leah and Tom let me know."
I've shown dogs now for around 20 years. Not often do I find show breeders who do not respect and admire those who hunt their dogs. Most of the time we are very interested which is why I joined these boards. We want to learn and experience everything about our dogs.
As for color. I have never cared one way or the other what color my hounds are. Tri's, Reds, blues (only have had one) and I could care less about markings. I've kept and shown many a beagle with a brown head or brown legs. Most of the time someone will say "its a shame she has a brown leg" and I'll not have even noticed. I am more interested in structure, temperament and the drive to do what I need them to do. I don't have many reds right now but, would not hesitate to keep one I liked. Actually for the first 5 or 6 years I had beagles I never got one and couldn't wait for a litter with a red in it ;-)
Leah
I've shown dogs now for around 20 years. Not often do I find show breeders who do not respect and admire those who hunt their dogs. Most of the time we are very interested which is why I joined these boards. We want to learn and experience everything about our dogs.
As for color. I have never cared one way or the other what color my hounds are. Tri's, Reds, blues (only have had one) and I could care less about markings. I've kept and shown many a beagle with a brown head or brown legs. Most of the time someone will say "its a shame she has a brown leg" and I'll not have even noticed. I am more interested in structure, temperament and the drive to do what I need them to do. I don't have many reds right now but, would not hesitate to keep one I liked. Actually for the first 5 or 6 years I had beagles I never got one and couldn't wait for a litter with a red in it ;-)
Leah
Life's a trip
but it doesn't come with a map
but it doesn't come with a map
Do any of you beaglers ever enter your show bred hounds in AKC Large pack on Hare trials where they are required to run for three hours. Just curious because several years ago me an a hunting buddy were interested in bettering the conformation of our hunting stock. We expermented with crossing the show hounds with our mostly gay bred hounds. We purchased a few and borrowed some others. We found that, unlike what has been posted, the show bred hounds were excellent hunters. They would get in the thickest briars and hunt and come out scratched and bloody at the end of the day. However, they had no stamina. After a couple hours of hard running they would be back curled up at your feet. Conditioning had nothing to do with it. They had the same opportunity to get in good physical condition. Our other hounds could hunt and run all night long but none of the show bred hounds would run for more than a couple of hours.
One bitch, Lolipop, who only needed a fraction of a point having her AKC Show championship, was one of the best rabbit jumping/varment dogs I have ever seen. She would climb an eight foot fence as easily as one would climb a stairs. Once out cats, rabbits, opossums beware because she would attack anything that had fur. She tore into my rabbit hutch and ate my tame rabbit.
Once when I turned her out to hunt she ran up to a neighbors house and began to bark excitedly. I had not met that family so I was very concerned. As she made the circle around the house I spotted their pet cat streaking around to the front where it climbed a tree. Lolipop lost sight of the cat and made another circle around the house determined to eat the cat. The neighbor, hearing the noise, came to the front door to see what was happening. As soon as the door was opened the cat, seeing its chance for escape, jumped out of the tree and streaked through the front door. I stood there embarrassed but thankful that the cat made it to safety. I mumbled something to the neighbors and headed out calling Lollipop. As we walked through the woods Lollipop trotted along sticking her head in every hollow log, brushpile, and hole in the ground looking for what ever she could find. When she jumped a rabbit she would run it hit and miss for a couple of circles then quit and come back exhausted. After that she was useless for the rest of the day.
Lollipop was such a character that if I were a gifted writer she would have made me rich just writing about her shenanigans. Her owner, having exhausted herself with Lollipos antics, loaned her to us to raise pups. After we kept her for about six months, I suppose she forgot how troublesome she was, told us to bring her home. We made the trip immediately returning her to her owner. Within a month we received a call telling us we could have her if we would come and get her.
Just thought I would share with you guys what several generations of selective breeding will accomplish. One other tidbit. Lollipop is the only bitch I have bred that every pup in the litter (she had seven pups) had a navel hernia.
One bitch, Lolipop, who only needed a fraction of a point having her AKC Show championship, was one of the best rabbit jumping/varment dogs I have ever seen. She would climb an eight foot fence as easily as one would climb a stairs. Once out cats, rabbits, opossums beware because she would attack anything that had fur. She tore into my rabbit hutch and ate my tame rabbit.
Once when I turned her out to hunt she ran up to a neighbors house and began to bark excitedly. I had not met that family so I was very concerned. As she made the circle around the house I spotted their pet cat streaking around to the front where it climbed a tree. Lolipop lost sight of the cat and made another circle around the house determined to eat the cat. The neighbor, hearing the noise, came to the front door to see what was happening. As soon as the door was opened the cat, seeing its chance for escape, jumped out of the tree and streaked through the front door. I stood there embarrassed but thankful that the cat made it to safety. I mumbled something to the neighbors and headed out calling Lollipop. As we walked through the woods Lollipop trotted along sticking her head in every hollow log, brushpile, and hole in the ground looking for what ever she could find. When she jumped a rabbit she would run it hit and miss for a couple of circles then quit and come back exhausted. After that she was useless for the rest of the day.
Lollipop was such a character that if I were a gifted writer she would have made me rich just writing about her shenanigans. Her owner, having exhausted herself with Lollipos antics, loaned her to us to raise pups. After we kept her for about six months, I suppose she forgot how troublesome she was, told us to bring her home. We made the trip immediately returning her to her owner. Within a month we received a call telling us we could have her if we would come and get her.
Just thought I would share with you guys what several generations of selective breeding will accomplish. One other tidbit. Lollipop is the only bitch I have bred that every pup in the litter (she had seven pups) had a navel hernia.
gus wrote:Do any of you beaglers ever enter your show bred hounds in AKC Large pack on Hare trials where they are required to run for three hours. Just curious because several years ago me an a hunting buddy were interested in bettering the conformation of our hunting stock. We expermented with crossing the show hounds with our mostly gay bred hounds. We purchased a few and borrowed some others. We found that, unlike what has been posted, the show bred hounds were excellent hunters. They would get in the thickest briars and hunt and come out scratched and bloody at the end of the day. However, they had no stamina. After a couple hours of hard running they would be back curled up at your feet. Conditioning had nothing to do with it. They had the same opportunity to get in good physical condition. Our other hounds could hunt and run all night long but none of the show bred hounds would run for more than a couple of hours.
One bitch, Lolipop, who only needed a fraction of a point having her AKC Show championship, was one of the best rabbit jumping/varment dogs I have ever seen. She would climb an eight foot fence as easily as one would climb a stairs. Once out cats, rabbits, opossums beware because she would attack anything that had fur. She tore into my rabbit hutch and ate my tame rabbit.
Once when I turned her out to hunt she ran up to a neighbors house and began to bark excitedly. I had not met that family so I was very concerned. As she made the circle around the house I spotted their pet cat streaking around to the front where it climbed a tree. Lolipop lost sight of the cat and made another circle around the house determined to eat the cat. The neighbor, hearing the noise, came to the front door to see what was happening. As soon as the door was opened the cat, seeing its chance for escape, jumped out of the tree and streaked through the front door. I stood there embarrassed but thankful that the cat made it to safety. I mumbled something to the neighbors and headed out calling Lollipop. As we walked through the woods Lollipop trotted along sticking her head in every hollow log, brushpile, and hole in the ground looking for what ever she could find. When she jumped a rabbit she would run it hit and miss for a couple of circles then quit and come back exhausted. After that she was useless for the rest of the day.
Lollipop was such a character that if I were a gifted writer she would have made me rich just writing about her shenanigans. Her owner, having exhausted herself with Lollipos antics, loaned her to us to raise pups. After we kept her for about six months, I suppose she forgot how troublesome she was, told us to bring her home. We made the trip immediately returning her to her owner. Within a month we received a call telling us we could have her if we would come and get her.
Just thought I would share with you guys what several generations of selective breeding will accomplish. One other tidbit. Lollipop is the only bitch I have bred that every pup in the litter (she had seven pups) had a navel hernia.
I am guessing you are trying to make the point that the show lines had ruined the bitch? I have bred almost strictly show lines of beagles now for 10 years and rarely have a umbilical hernia. It does occasionally happen and some do believe that its genetic but, the majority are caused by overactive mothers who can't leave the cord alone. Given this bitches wild attitude and obvious obsessive behavior its not terribly surprising. In both field and show lines you are going to get that odd one that is a PITA!
A couple of years ago I decided to introduce some field lines into my program for various reasons. I purchased a nice bitch from a breeder in PA. This bitch had been used for hunting and her pedigree was chock full of FC's. She could have probably been finished as an AKC champion but, her temperament was soft and shy to a point. I later learned this man was very heavy handed with his hounds and so, I bred her instead of showing her. Her first litter was a disaster. No labor and a C-section. She was a mediocre mother but, I decided to give her one more chance hoping for that one that I could show and possibly send to someone for training. That litter also was a C-section and If my memory serves me none survived. She was placed into a companion home. My show dogs rarely give me trouble whelping as I have been careful to select for freewhelpers who are good mothers.
I cannot comment on running in large packs as I have not personally had the pleasure of doing so.
Leah
Life's a trip
but it doesn't come with a map
but it doesn't come with a map
Actually it is more of a time factor than anything else.
As you would well know a guy just can't get a dog ready
for that kind of physical output overnight. So it would be
about like taking a year off from showing that dog to get it ready for
large pack.
To be honest my kids (who show ours) would just as soon that their dad
kept his hands off "their" dogs until after they finish them
('course I don't)
tom
As you would well know a guy just can't get a dog ready
for that kind of physical output overnight. So it would be
about like taking a year off from showing that dog to get it ready for
large pack.
To be honest my kids (who show ours) would just as soon that their dad
kept his hands off "their" dogs until after they finish them
('course I don't)
tom
CH Copper Rose Nothing But Net (Patrick)
CH SweetBreez Erin Go Braugh (Peanut)
CH Windflower It's A Beautiful Day (Morgan)
CH Copper Rose Looney Tunes (Poo)
CH Seventhson's Shotgun Sophie
CH SweetBreez Erin Go Braugh (Peanut)
CH Windflower It's A Beautiful Day (Morgan)
CH Copper Rose Looney Tunes (Poo)
CH Seventhson's Shotgun Sophie
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Stumbo's Beagles
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:50 pm
- Location: Kentucky
Thats what I do attend is UKC Little Pack. We have trials here at Tomahawk in Martin County and one in Salyersville and the other is at Redbush. What do you mean take hair off of her? I understand to cut some hair, but what I'm asking is where? What are some of the other things that I might want to do. I figure I would brush her and trim her nails, but is there anything else? She also will be running in the trial as well, so dont know which one she will go into first so the hair might get messed up by the briars, if the field trial is first. Also tyvm TC for the praises. I hope to try and give her the best chance at placing. I know she can run a rabbit but I dont want to be the one to mess up in the show.
I guess I should respond to the origional ? before someone gets mad at me for being off topic. So here it goes, I just want to kill a few rabbits every year. I have only bred twice and when I did I took a female that ran a rabbit the way I liked and then found a male that ran the rabbit the same way. The male is the best rabbit dog I know. We usually kill around 200 rabbits a year off of the male. These pups are around 4 months old now so I dont really know if they will make it or not. I kept 3 of the 7. I think when any of us that breed rabbit dogs we think we are bettering the breed. What I mean by that is we try to take the 2 best dogs we know of and breed them. I hope noone takes the 2 worst dogs they ever seen and breeds them, thinking they will produce world beaters. It probably happens thou, I have seen stranger things. I dont know anything about show beagles, so I wont show any ignorance talking about them. I have nothing against show beagles, field trials or just plain rabbit dogs. If the dog will run me a rabbit so I can shoot it, then the dog is welcome to come and run with me anytime, weither its tri-color, lemon & white, bluetick, paint it pink even. All I want to do is shoot some rabbits and have fun doin it.
I guess I should respond to the origional ? before someone gets mad at me for being off topic. So here it goes, I just want to kill a few rabbits every year. I have only bred twice and when I did I took a female that ran a rabbit the way I liked and then found a male that ran the rabbit the same way. The male is the best rabbit dog I know. We usually kill around 200 rabbits a year off of the male. These pups are around 4 months old now so I dont really know if they will make it or not. I kept 3 of the 7. I think when any of us that breed rabbit dogs we think we are bettering the breed. What I mean by that is we try to take the 2 best dogs we know of and breed them. I hope noone takes the 2 worst dogs they ever seen and breeds them, thinking they will produce world beaters. It probably happens thou, I have seen stranger things. I dont know anything about show beagles, so I wont show any ignorance talking about them. I have nothing against show beagles, field trials or just plain rabbit dogs. If the dog will run me a rabbit so I can shoot it, then the dog is welcome to come and run with me anytime, weither its tri-color, lemon & white, bluetick, paint it pink even. All I want to do is shoot some rabbits and have fun doin it.
J. Stumbo
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AlabamaSwamper
- Posts: 810
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:06 pm
- Location: Florence, AL
- Contact:
JIMMIE ABSHIRE wrote:Swamper , Although i agree with you as far as hunt is concerned I dont think its fair to us that trial gundogs , proven gundogs that have paid for there food.Trailing is a way to judge my best with a complete strangers best . Ribbons and trophies are pretty cool
chasing trophies or playing golf etc . As you know speed seems to be the flavor among trialers thats dum . People breed to whatever is winning look at turbo fans . Why have they bought and bred to ever dog that has a really cool name .Nothing at all with turbo blood but thats what i have noticed . So i suppose what i am trying to say is dont bunch us up . There are some fine dogs in ever registry . Me personally i like akc and lp . Dogs in both are overall pretty quality hounds . I have always thought though ever dog should be shot over before its cast , i have always thought there are lots of gun shy hounds we aint seen . Gundogs will always prevail
Sorry Jimmy. Didn't mean it that way. Seems to be the norm these days with my posts.
I was just making the point that one doesn't have to trial to have and breed complete rabbit dogs and better the breed. To many times (way to many), trialers chase those flavors and I wonder sometimes what it accomplishes. I'm sure in some cases it turns out great and it others it don't but in the end, there are lots of pups that with a little thought and responsibility, wouldn't be around for people to swap every month.
You don't see "hunters" (those that hunt first and trial second) doing this 99% of the time. They could care less if they get picked up because of some judges opinion or ways of scoring. They go home happy because they know what they have.
Make sense?
"No stronger bond exist than that between a man and his dog."
Link to RabbitDawg board. (Old Southernbeagles board)
http://www.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=6643
Link to RabbitDawg board. (Old Southernbeagles board)
http://www.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=6643