Run to Catch

[RiverBottom]

I've traveled all over this country, drove thousands of miles, and I never saw California. It must not exist? You guys that say California is real are full of crap. I know better and you can't tell me different!

Sorry, just trying to make a point. Everyone knows their own little part of the world and therefore, that is all there is and they don't want to believe anything they haven't seen. Well, none of us has seen even a small fraction of the hound world. People all over the world have been running hounds for thousands of years. Beagles are one of the oldest breeds of hounds. Everything you and I learn in a lifetime of running beagles would not make a drop in the Pacific Ocean. Once you can wrap your brain around that thought you might begin to really learn something from people that have spent their lifetime doing exactly what you thought was impossible.

Mybeagles, watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIV6Ow9vmfA

Heads up, high speed, stay on the line running from hounds that have put a dent in the hare population of my running grounds this year.

Now watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv0Ax87vzqg

Slow going, cold trailing hounds on a day that many say no bealge can possibly run a hare.

Same dogs.

[ricky murphy]

Chase to catch hound---hound that pursues a rabbit in such a manner as to overtake!

[RiverBottom]

Here's another video for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3InKeoeHtQQ

This pack ran down and caught 26 hare last year. This is in Ireland, they don't believe in shooting game in front of hounds. Now watch it again. How much skirting and cheating do you see?

[ohlinger]

Riverbottom those dogs are doing a nice job but that is hare. The ireland video those dogs are doing a nice job as well but i would'nt say they are cruising that track. I'm not catching what you're trying to say but here is a video of my dogs on a cottontail. This was a good day we had last week.

This is on cottontail not hare. 6 dogs this is as big of a pack as i like to run.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW5Ov1su66c

Trust me i know what a pounding chase is and i know what it takes to catch all these cottontails. Never traveled the world looking for california,but i have chased down these great hounds only to be disappointed before...

[NorWester1]

Ohlinger wrote,

Riverbottom those dogs are doing a nice job but that is hare

Are you implying that hare are easier to run or catch? Not sure what you're point is.

[ohlinger]

I was'nt implying anything why would you think i was implying something ? If i mean to say something i try to be as direct about it as possible. It is exactly as i said those dogs are running a hare full bore ahead like that not a cottontail so you can't compare apples to oranges.

[NorWester1]

You wrote, "but that is hare".... like that means running hare is different or irrelevant in this discussion? This subject is about running to catch is it not? Perhaps I missed something somewhere.

[ohlinger]

Just seems to me that this post has been directed more towards cottontails than hare..the question came up about swampers, and another mentioned his dog runs downs and catches hares, all of my posts so far has been directed toward cottontail i've only ran hare once. Hare and cottontail are different. I did'nt think i had to imply that.

[mybeagles]

RiverBottom,

Video 1 they were running a pretty good speed. Not a "10" but a good 7-8. Your video demonstrated various speeds of hounds in your pack. Some dogs with head up running, others trying to run a closer line.

Video 2 with only two dogs running in deeper snow. Multiple checks and periods where you paused the video to wait for them to find it again. A far cry from dogs that geared down to keep a steady track going. A dog that can run a "10" speed can slow down enough to get bits and pieces of a line but the breakdowns are painful. Sometimes 5 minute checks and they find the rabbit or a different rabbit 400 yards away.

Video 3 they seem to be running a 6-7 speed with 40 hounds. Can you guess how they might catch some rabbits in a check???? I would guess 3-5 dogs were running the line, what about the last 35? "just barking".

I agree with those who say a dog running a line will never run a "healthy" rabbit down. A long steady race will cause rabbits to stiffen up for whatever reason, rabbits that squat have a chance of getting discovered. Thats a completely different story than a dog running one down. If the rabbit doesnt stop the dogs wont catch it. Havent you ever been to the grayhound races....dogs dont catch it till the rabbit stops

I dont know if California exists or not, but I know dogs that run a "10" speed dont slow down and walk a steady smooth race in poor conditions. They dont run real clean in great running conditions, they are certainly not going to in poor conditions.

Mybeagles

[HarleyPA]

It's late, but I have to drop my 2 cents here.

I have to agree with Ohlinger, Bluemouse, and Earl.

I am not saying a dog that catches rabbits doesn't exist. I will point out that most of the dogs you hear about catching rabbits, are in a set of circumstances that allow for it to happen. When I ran a strip mine in KY, I counted one hole for a rabbit to use. I can show you an acre of ground here that has at least 200 holes. I can also take you to a place where dogs have to belley crawl to go 100 yards. I SERIOUSLY doubt that a beagle, by ITSELF, will run down and catch a healthy rabbit with opportunity to go to ground, on a consistant basis. In my experience, rabbits know when they are getting tired or about to get caught, and thats when they go to ground.

I have what I consider to be a good dog. She has almost caught one, by herself. I mean hair in mouth. But it didn't happen. The reason why she about had it? The rabbit sat to long in a check. I wouldn't consider that as my dog doing anything special, but rather mister cottontail messing up.

Hoodswamp.... I am not busting on you. You have a right to be proud of your hounds. Everybody has a right to brag on their hounds.
I am simply stating that everybody runs under different conditions, and what is normal for some is unheard of to others.

Bluemouse, someday I am coming down there.

[RiverBottom]

Not a "10" but a good 7-8.

I judge speed by how fast they run the hare. If they are off the line they are not running the hare no matter how fast their feet are moving. What you call a ten I call a cull.

Sometimes 5 minute checks and they find the rabbit or a different rabbit 400 yards away.

Mybeagles, I've had a few hounds that fit that description. They were mostly LPH bred hounds. None of them survived very long here.

Can you guess how they might catch some rabbits in a check????

I guessing they catch hare only because they don't have many checks. Any hound causing checks is removed from their pack very quickly.

Any of you that are interested in run to catch hounds might enjoy this story: http://www.biggamehoundsmen.com/forum/v ... 72&t=10506
Even has a few pictures of some sick dead bobcats the hounds stumbled on that were just laying around the woods

[mybeagles]

River bottom,

Your the one that showed "fast dogs" trying to run in tough conditions with an obvious amount of long checks. Even with all the times you stopped the video to cover lost time it was quite obvious you were not dealing with a geared down smooth race. It would have been more convincing if they kept the race going for more than 20 yards without a check.

Believe it or not there are dogs that can run at full speed AND keep the rabbit going. Thats what I call a 10. Yes, there are dogs that run like fools through the woods and seldom have a rabbit in front of them. Thats not what Im talking about.

Dogs don't run check free. If they eliminated every dog that caused a check they wouldnt have a pack or they would have some medium to medium slow hounds. Certainly not the type that would be running down their querry. If you choose to believe they own dogs that run down rabbits with great speed and run check free I dont know what to say. you got me there.

Ive judged some awful good dogs in the NMHA. Some better than any dog Ive ever owned. The two I mentioned were so fast I had no idea a dog could run that fast through the woods and still keep the rabbit going. It restructured my thinking on what the 1-10 speed scale is. Every association and format has their share of trashy dogs, but the NMHA has some of the most dedicated, knowlegable beaglers around with a long history of association with the great hounds through the years. Be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Mybeagles

[RiverBottom]

Mybeagles, I was just happy they could run the rabbit at all, let alone bring it back to where they started it from. Only a handful of the hundreds of beagles I have owned could do that much in those conditions, and none of them were "medium speed" or slower on the good days. Never claimed to have perfect hounds, but I'm trying hard

Watch the Irish video again. Those are not 10 speed beagles. And I do believe they have eliminated quite a few. I don't know how they catch their hare but I'm not going to say they do it by cheating or finding sick ones.

I used to believe some of the things you do, until I had it proven otherwise to me. In fact, I don't know much at all about beagles. I used to know it all when I first started, then I kept finding out I was wrong. I've been doing it so long now that I don't know s**t

[Alabama John]

Somebody asked about catching a swamper or what we can a Canecutter. yes, they get caught too, especially in water or when they are coming out. They when getting tired of running will more often go up in a hollow tree. Swamps do not have many holes in the ground.

Older dogs learn to look for the rabbit in the water ahead of them swimming more so if it is smooth like a big still slough. Also to check in the water for it floating still with just its nose sticking out and a branch of grass, tree limb, etc in its mouth to keep it still and in one place. Several times when its found, it is swimming into a dog but even in water, they can also see the dogs and swim crooked to avoid them. They are not stupid and wwim a little faster than a dog. Webbed feet you know.

A dog that will try to run all the track and not learn, of have sense enough, to leave the point of loss and swim across, ever how wide it is, and check the other sides bank for the track and continue on will not do here. Some lines of dogs just will not leave a loss and try out further. Best not to try to use them here. Nothing wrong with those lines, they are just not the type needed here in our environment. Must be a lesson here for us all, huh!!!

Also have seen some dogs opening trailing across water swimming and you could see the clear trail in the water so you knew the dog was following right on it. Several folks on these boards have come down run with our us. Ask them if a beagle can run a rabbit down from behind. Had one catch one and when the dogs quickly jumped another and was running it, we knew it was a different rabbit as she came by sorta squeeling funny as she had the first rabbit in her mouth while running the second one!
Now, top that. Lol, Lol!

[wvduece]

now thats heart would love to seen that jb Had one catch one and when the dogs quickly jumped another and was running it, we knew it was a different rabbit as she came by sorta squeeling funny as she had the first rabbit in her mouth while running the second one!