ARHA Hunting and Handling rule

[bfoster]

Just asking, do we want to change the rule for ones self or for the betterment of the sport

So requiring a hound to run a rabbit would not be considered better for the sport? A sport based on promoting the rabbit beagle for hunting.

Of all the AKC trails I've been to, I have yet to see judgement handed down on a cast that did not run a rabbit. It seems that the time limitation that is such a factor in ARHA is not a problem in AKC. AKC Judges will just continue to work until they have a race and can provide proper judgement. ARHA judges have a cop out called Hunting and Handling. Have you ever seen a lazy ARHA judge? One that does not appear to be working hard for a race until the last 15 minutes of the cast.

[piney mtn. kennels]

Just saying!
You have a three dog cast. Dog A hunts hard for one hour . Dog B and Dog C hunts for mayby ten minutes and then follows the judges around. Time is extended and Dog A hunts hard for another thirty minutes and jumps a rabbit and has twenty minutes of running and loses by five or ten points. Is this fair to Dog A?

[calmobeagler]

Judged in ARHA and come back a bloody mess with little running, that was just keeping up with dogs searching. Believe it or not why your standing there talking judges actually try to stay with the pack and see what dog is doing what. As far as being lazy and working the last 15 minutes, no judge wants to determine a cast on hunting and handling and pick the dog he thought did best so someone could get mad because their dog did not win, so he or she tries to work the dogs harder so certain people dont get mad and discourage them from judging. Just curious what do you do when your judging!

[johns03272008]

Just saying!
You have a three dog cast. Dog A hunts hard for one hour . Dog B and Dog C hunts for mayby ten minutes and then follows the judges around. Time is extended and Dog A hunts hard for another thirty minutes and jumps a rabbit and has twenty minutes of running and loses by five or ten points. Is this fair to Dog A?

Guess Dog A wasn't the best dog then!! Just cause it hunted harder doesn't mean it should win!! Winning should be judging the dogs running a rabbit not by hunting and handling!!

[Little Indian Creek]

Just asking, do we want to change the rule for ones self or for the betterment of the sport

So requiring a hound to run a rabbit would not be considered better for the sport? A sport based on promoting the rabbit beagle for hunting.

Of all the AKC trails I've been to, I have yet to see judgement handed down on a cast that did not run a rabbit. It seems that the time limitation that is such a factor in ARHA is not a problem in AKC. AKC Judges will just continue to work until they have a race and can provide proper judgement. ARHA judges have a cop out called Hunting and Handling. Have you ever seen a lazy ARHA judge? One that does not appear to be working hard for a race until the last 15 minutes of the cast.

This AKC trial you are referring to takes 3 days to complete, that is the difference.

[johns03272008]

3 days because there is 4 different classes with 13" females 13" males 15" males and 15" females and they RUN rabbits

[bfoster]

Believe it or not why your standing there talking judges actually try to stay with the pack and see what dog is doing what.

As we say it. "We don't walk and talk. We run to catch." Catch the race. I'm not a tailgater. I tailgate at the football game.

We come to win and we bring the dogs to do it. They hunt and handle just fine, but we come to run'em and have fun. We don't get mad when we don't win. You can't win them all.

My running partner won hunting and handling in his first cast last weekend. His dog then won the trial in the 5 dog winners pack. I took a year and half old pup and took second in my cast with barly any running (6th overall and Best of Show). It was dry, running was poor, and it was a tough day. Some days are and I understand that completely.

I started this because I agree with the new trailer we took with us. He is a really good houndsman, with winning calaber dogs. He paid over $60 to come (Two dogs - reg., entry, and club membership, luckily we live close so not major travel costs) and he then went home shaking his head. He couldn't believe we wouldn't take the dogs that ran a rabbit in their cast over the dogs that didn't run a rabbit. He couldn't see how hunting and handling only could be considered as winning a rabbit dog sport.

Just curious what do you do when your judging!

I do the same thing as any good "bloody mess" judge does, but that's not the point.

The point is the weaknesses in the rules and setting a higher standard via said rules. A standard we can all be proud of.

If of 40 people 70% agree there needs to be a change to the hunting and handling rule, then we need to come up with a better solution than H&H. It doesn't have to be my suggestion. What do you think would be an improvement?

[east80kennels]

lol get ya some dogs that can jump a rabbit!!! that will solve everything!!

[andrew_kirby]

He couldn't believe we wouldn't take the dogs that ran a rabbit in their cast over the dogs that didn't run a rabbit. He couldn't see how hunting and handling only could be considered as winning a rabbit dog sport.

So are you saying that hunting and handling won the cast as a tie breaker in a cast that did have running? Not trying to start anything just wondering what happened.

[bfoster]

So are you saying that hunting and handling won the cast as a tie breaker in a cast that did have running? Not trying to start anything just wondering what happened.

No. H&H was awarded to casts that didn't have running. Those dogs then advanced to the winners pack and then ultimately placed higher than his one dog that got second in a running cast. I explained it, but he didn't agree with it. I've just always excepted it, but I don't like it. I would like no longer to just except it, if we can do something to improve it.

[begles]

this is not AKC, You can talk all day long untile someone gets mad and wants to come to your house and beat you up.for better results contact your state rep. their the ones that can get things done.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

So are you saying that hunting and handling won the cast as a tie breaker in a cast that did have running? Not trying to start anything just wondering what happened.

No. H&H was awarded to casts that didn't have running. Those dogs then advanced to the winners pack and then ultimately placed higher than his one dog that got second in a running cast. I explained it, but he didn't agree with it. I've just always excepted it, but I don't like it. I would like no longer to just except it, if we can do something to improve it.

Unfortunatley unless its a rule violation, its your opinion. I dont agree with obama on alot but i get stuck with his decisions.
Case in point years ago i was at a hunt.Dog A which was mine had pretty much dissapered in thicket, she jump a rabbit. Dog B NOT HUNTING AT ALL SEEN THE RABBIT COME OUT. I was rewared strike and he a jump WTF? Life aint fair.

[JCM]

I love how some guys that run AKC want to talk about how you have to run. At least in ARHA you don't have 20 guys out there in a line with sticks beating the brush trying to jump rabbits and constantly calling dogs. How much running would AKC require if the dogs had to jump their own rabbits? It's a different system with different requirements/expectations.

There are some days with some casts where it is tough for hounds to find rabbits and/or run. Occasionally this happens when you run at home but you know which dog is hunting the best. I think the system works. A knowledgable judge can tell what hounds are hunting best and deserve the cast win.

[Casey Harner]

Not naming the owner or the dog, but the last world hunt the judge told the handlers to handle your dogs. This particular dog jumped a rabbit when the other dogs were being handled by their owners. This dog jumped the rabbit wasn't handled by the owner right away. From little of what I heard the dog and another tied and he lost due to the handling part of the rule. Rules are rules but that would be tough to swallow in my opinion.

I like little pack and the people who attend them.

[bwe007]

just as Jim and Andrew said it. sometimes it's hard to find rabbits. most dogs walk the path or just plain fu$% around very few dogs anymore are good jump dogs. for those of you that say the winner should be the dog that runs the rabbit the best sometimes that happens. but on the other hand when the dog stands by the judges feet the whole cast and doesn't even try to find a rabbit those dogs should be culled. god bless a jump dog.