F.C> Champions That Stand Around

[randy hicks]

Warddog I LIKE you coon hunter at one time, running beagles in AKC shows is something special, for me better than any old nite hunt period trust me when I say I ran with some of the best hounds at one time love those coon hound. to understand beagling you must attend and compete to understand it join a club,these boards don't compare to the experience. As for dogs standing and looking around they are dogs and that's what dogs do.IM sure a judge or marshal caught it.

[wildcatfan0309]

I wanted to add that at most akc trials there is no time
For a dog to stand around or not hunt
Because the midwest clubs always keep ya in a good number of bunnys!!
Usally one rabbit after another from my experences
And also wanted to add that everyone should go to a midwest run off
And watch the winners pack go. Rabbit dawgs!!!

[rabbitearl]

You know I put on a lot of trials,Love the fellowship.But there s one trial that I can do and 99 percent of the hunters there are rabbit hunters.Big Pack.But the last one I done about two years ago.the dogs done this on the first rabbit and then on the 2nd rabbit I told everybody to pick there dog up and go home. Nobody wins.They lost the rabbit about 100 yds in the run and within in 10 sec dogs started popping out like popcorn. They all hunt good but would not stay in there to find the check.Thats the reason I say.Theres something eles beside running one and hunting one.I see a lot of rabbit hunters looking a place with lots of rabbits.I understand when somebody doing a trial they will say.Pleny of rabbits. rabbits make any dog or trial look good.but in the real world you don t hunt many place with lots of rabbits.I would say a lot of AKC spo trials maybe 10 percent are rabbit hunters.I might be wrong but what I ve notice.I m not talking about guys that hunt maybe 3 to 4 times a year just to say.I am a rabbit hunter.No you a trailer and you in it for the money.AKC are in it for the money.For some reason a lot of people think just because its got FC on it somewere its a rabbit dowg. I ve been very disappointed looking at some.Sure they do a good job running one> BUT.Can anybody say that all FC are rabbit dogs,or can all FC jump there on rabbit with deer all around with less rabbits without the shock collar on.

I think, keep it like it is,Don t even look at the jump part.Just the hunting part.You just don t have enuff time to look at the jump and sure( HOPE)not take but one jump.If it take more than one rabbit in a trial.They all need to be pick up.Then when it makes FC for running the rabbit like it is.Take 5 or 6 FC out rabbit hunting for 6 hr a day in three day without shock collar on with 5 different rabbit hunters shooting rabbits( Deer everywere) and then find your true RABBIT DOG FC.If we as rabbit hunters would do something like this you will have a lot more people looking at these trials and I would say.Now we are better the breed.But the way it is now.I ve got a FC.SO.Can you take it rabbit hunting.Any trial that you do.We are looking at the running part.Guys we as rabbit hunters have to do better with our trials.I don't know of any format out there that after the dog makes FC.Is it A rabbit dog.If we don t do anything different than looking at mostly the running part.It will be the samething over and over in the years to come.I am a RABBIT HUNTER.

[wildcatfan0309]

I am part of the 80% on the list that no longer care to judge even though I am plenty capable.....although, after well over a year of sitting on the sidelines I agreed to judge one single derby trial and the winning hound won the HOY and Runoff....hmmm ....I'd say he's a good hound and others agreed as well, although you might want to keep reading before you make your final decision.

My lack of accepting judging assignments is mostly due to family constraints but partly due to a-holes running out in the field in my face telling me I don't know my azz from a hole in the ground or cramping their hands up typing in bold letters several days after the trial on the internet. Pretty sure I was even part of the worst judge in 30 years argument.....that too was a joke in that the owners didn't even show up for the winners pack the next day after I ran my azz off all day to bring back 9 great hounds and 8 of the 9 smoked rabbits the next day (the 9th was their hound)....I still regret that I didn't report the no-show to the AKC but it didn't matter anyhow and my PO'dness only came because of an internet attack days later....the dog deserved to be there as he was one of my top scoring hounds coming back, owners loss I guess.

The guys griping are usually the owners of the dogs that are blowing here there and everywhere or not even in the field of play during the race....it got so old that it was laughable. In most cases they didn't even know what their own dogs were doing on the line, in the field, our out of the dog box. I personally sent one to the truck (ingrained in the brain) for blowing lines....while the idiot was telling me to go f'k myself his dog blew out of the check 3 different ways but he didn't notice. It isn't funny or laughable how kennel blind some have become....I don't trial anymore because I don't have anything I think can win because I know all of my dogs faults, even my FC (yes, FC's have faults...lol)...currently conditioning being a big one. If more would learn to look at the end of their own lead strap instead of others lead straps, the world could be a better place....jealousy is a bi+ch and will make ya look like a fool every time.

Little story on "hunt" to bring this back to the topic......picked up a guys dog for multiple reasons, he gets in my face about how hard his dog was hunting and jumped every rabbit bla bla bla.....a rabbit was jumped right after and he yelled "see _______ just jumped that rabbit, hear him stroking it"....no more than a second later a guy yells "hey _____ I have your dog"....you see, his dog was no where around that rabbit or the jump. Yes, he looked like a fool.....

I have judged a LOT of FC's, never ever seen one I wouldn't love to own or gun hunt over.....Grind your Axe elsewhere

Funny!!!

[ackermanich]

As an AKC judge, I can tell you that a dog that jumps a rabbit gets score.

Kept my mouth shut until I read this one!
I'm going to say it would depend on the judge.
I agree a jump should definitely be considerd.
A few years back, I attended an AKC trial in Jackson Oho.
45 minutes into the hunt, and we hadn't got the first rabbit up.
Suddenly my dog, opens up, and is moving out, another dog , now a Fc
Opens up with him.( yes I recognize the other hound, as I run with the
dog, and I'm friends with the owner)
The judges can't catch up with them to even get score. That rabbit bee
Lined, and we found the two dogs at the hole.
I remember one dog hanging around us, while my dog, and the other dog
Was running track. I also remember a reputable AKC judge who I respect,
Being a spectator , asking " was that your dog, that started that track? If
So, I would give him credit, for we have had a tough time getting one up"
Anyhow , once the race was over, my dog was picked up, then the pack was
Picked up. The dog that stood around us, and was in hearing distance of the
Race, and never honored the other two, went on to the winners pack.
That was not my first AKC trial, but was definitely my last.

[Ohiohntr]

The dog that stood around us, and was in hearing distance of the race, and never honored the other two.

You had me till this statement...even my unstarted pups will go check out a barking hound, jump on their heads, and chew their ears if they are in hearing distance. The only time I have seen this happen is when a dog has babbled around so much that the other dogs get tired the crying wolf syndrome. Not saying it didn't happen, heck I might have been judging as I judged a lot in Jackson a few years ago....actually if it was 15" males in the strip mines I think I remember it.

To get back on track this is another true story regarding hunt.....a now FC reached into a clump of grass and grabbed a rabbit as he was passing by....it was the oddest thing I have ever seen but the other judge and I didn't give him score for it because he never set the rabbit down for the pack to run. Seriously, how do you score that one? ...no bark, no nothing...just reached his head into the grass and grabbed a rabbit by the neck.

[mybeagles]

Achermanich,

I'm amazed at the amount of details you could provide from standing in the gallery. Heard a couple dogs bark, determined which dogs they were and what happened. After all, no two dogs sound alike and there is no possible way any of the dogs involved could have done anything to require being picked up.

Perhaps AKC should eliminate the need for judges which would save the clubs money, save the judges from running their guts out for 6-8 hours. They just need a couple handlers like yourself with a real keen ear for describing the action..

[Parker7]

This is why you should find a format that fits you and your dogs and the formats you don't like, leave them alone. But also don't let one bad experience run you off or you won't have nowhere to compete your hounds. As far as standing around I think every organization has a few that stand around.

[ray s]

I've seen a few guys come to fieldtrials that obviously don't like for others to "pass judgement" on their beloved beagles.(especially if it is negative).
A fieldtrial is no place for someone like that.
I don't believe field trialling is a good fit for every Beagler.

[Farm dog]

Ok you got me. If I'm judging and I can figure out who got the jump, the dog gets score. Does this always work, no. Most owners know their dogs bark, judges do not. I've been on your end also. Had a dog in a trial jump the 2 rabbits the pack ran and then got picked up. Yes it can be frustrating. But a judge isn't going to see everything. I have wore a gps watch to see how much I travel for the day while judging. On the low end is 10 miles. A lot of times 12-14 miles. Had 1 that the battery died at 18 at the start of winners pack. I'm all for other people doing some judging, so they can see how much fun it can be.

[brad stewart]

To field trial you have to like your hound no matter what if its picked up just smile and be proud of your hound it doesn't matter what anyone else thanks

[warddog]

Achermanich,

I'm amazed at the amount of details you could provide from standing in the gallery. Heard a couple dogs bark, determined which dogs they were and what happened. After all, no two dogs sound alike and there is no possible way any of the dogs involved could have done anything to require being picked up.

Perhaps AKC should eliminate the need for judges which would save the clubs money, save the judges from running their guts out for 6-8 hours. They just need a couple handlers like yourself with a real keen ear for describing the action..

Funny how that very thing happens at EVERY coon hound nite hunt! When I hunted them I could most generally tell you what my hound was doing by the sound of his mouth, cold track, hot track, deer run, drifting a track, tapping or checking trees, actually treeing and even treeing an opossum. All this stuff may be a mile away. A determined amount of points for strike and tree with plus minuses along the way with strict time limits and when you get to the tree. That's what I call objectiveness. YES, there are so many ways for cast members to try to pull the wool over a judges eyes BUT it never took me long to figure out, the guys packing automatic strike dogs, me too dogs, calling their dogs off another's bark etc.
I too have hunted with some of the top coon hunters in the country and in fact live only a half mile from Paul Gibson, who owned and hunted the First female World Hunt winner in Dickey's Ole Sandy. I know Paul well and in fact he is still following them big hounds many a night right in my woods and has brought many a PKC cast out here to which I enjoyed listening to sitting on my front deck. Could I tell a strike and a tree, sure could but never having heard a single dog in the cast I just didn't know which particular one it was. This is where I get all bound up in what is used to judge or determine a Champion rabbit dog as from all I have read it opens the door to A LOT of subjectiveness that has absolutely nothing to do with jumping, striking and ending a rabbit track. Evidently my confusion from one being on the outside looing in isn't a lot different from a lot of those on the inside as I have consistently read about folks asking how things are scored, judged or determined among all the folks who trial beagles only to still be as confused today as I was several years ago when I first became a member of these beagle boards. What I hear is a BUNCH of I would score it this way or I would score it that way and what I am looking for is one definitive answer of IT MUST BE SCORED like this. One of the main things that I have seen debated on here is the SIZE RULE. What, I have seen is folks make that rule subjective with excuses when the written rules clearly state 13" or less and above 13" to a maximum of 15". OK, I get that dogs will stand differently and I have showed coon hounds on the bench before and although they were shown by age groups and NOT size the judges were charged with picking a winner that met the breed standards, period and those that did not could not receive championship points. Still not knocking anything but I'm baffled how "the Best" is determined from subjective judging. I know that my idea of a rabbit dog will certainly NOT be the same as a lot of others and vise-versa.

[bbg]

When I decided to become an AKC SPO Judge it was because I wanted to make a difference. Any dog that isn't hunting will not make my winners pack. I have picked up some of the better line running dogs in a pack for their lack of hunt. However, we are there to find the best overall hound. Hunt is only a part of that. I score the dogs for hunt and the jump.
Handlers need to realize that they do not see as much from the gallery as judges do running with the dogs. Hearing is not seeing. In a trial last fall, I picked up a dog fairly quick and the handler told me that his dog had gotten every check. He could HEAR him pick the check and take it. What I SAW was that his dog would immediately start back tracking and then join the pack when another dog picked the check.
I have rarely had handlers complain about my decisions but it seems that those who do have the worst dogs in the pack.

[ackermanich]

majority of the time hounds will honor each other, but for some variable, it did not. Prior to the rabbit being jumped, this dog only " moved",when the handlers decided to move. Personally I saw nothing out of this hound to even be considered. Babbling, as you had mentioned is another variable, but can be ruled out, as after 45 minutes into the hunt the first race occurred.

my beagles! What you are describing sounds a lot like UKC, or close to a hound and hunter format. First of all I was not standing in the gallery,

Achermanich,

I'm amazed at the amount of details you could provide from standing in the gallery. Heard a couple dogs bark, determined which dogs they were and what happened. After all, no two dogs sound alike and there is no possible way any of the dogs involved could have done anything to require being picked up.

Perhaps AKC should eliminate the need for judges which would save the clubs money, save the judges from running their guts out for 6-8 hours. They just need a couple handlers like yourself with a real keen ear for describing the action..

eagle

First to Ohiohntr, No you were not the judge that day. I must ask you though, In all your years of judging/ beagling you have never seen a beagle simply not show interest and not honor other hounds? It was very hot that day, rabbits were scarce, and the dogs were very "bored". Maybe this dog was hurt in the first series, maybe it was out of shape, maybe it was (not in this case), getting out footed. Maybe, it was independent. Although I could hear the other hounds, maybe it couldn't. I don't know the reasoning why this hound did not honor the others, but it did not have the desire to do so. I agree the I was an active participant in a hunt. I appreciate the compliment, regarding your amazement of my ability to know what my dog sounds like. I believe most beaglers that run hounds religiously can pick their hounds out of a pack. Yes you will always run across that other hound that sounds similar, but for the most part there is a difference. I also believe an avid beagler that spends many hours in the field knows a lot about their hound by listening to them. Would you believe, I can listen to my dog and know if he jumped a rabbit, or simply started a track. Would you believe I can tell by listening, if its a hot or cold track, by the way he opens up? Im not saying this applies to every aspect. Example: tight mouthed dog working a check, in front of dog using plenty of mouth, You cant see the dogs, but that dog that gives plenty of tongue, is sure getting a lot of checks.[ wonder who will be confused now}.
Anyhow, on that particular day after 45 minutes into the hunt, my dog started a rabbit, and ran it with another dog, being my friends dog, so yes I do know what his dog sounds like as well. The question was asked "whos dog was that who opened up. I said mine, no one disagreed. The two dogs were found at the hole, and my dog was picked up, and then the pack was picked up.The dog that never left his owners side went back. That dog today is a Fc. I will not mention names, but again a reputable AKC judge that was a spectator, along with my friend who is an active AKC judge, said I got a raw deal. again that was my last trial. I like AKC. judging the dog for its ability to run a rabbit. Ijust see to much corruption, and judges that are incompetent. I have had some worthy hounds. I have had hounds that have placed in Akc, just not in my hands. Most will say, " well go to the seminar and get your license and start judging if you don't like it" My answer is I don't like the president of the United States either, but im not running for President. Good day.

[lake electric]

got a question ? ive judged some not alot but some in qualifiers and derbys. have any of you all judging a cast or pack , and been having ground pounding running and eventually u have to start weeding out some dogs and after sending a dog to the truck, and all of a sudden the running is not what it was, big time drop off in keeping the rabbit running. and the judges look at each other and think OH NO !!!! WHAT HAVE WE DONE !!!! Kinda happen to me one time lol, but the dog that got sent to the truck, came in and laid down. after a rabbit was holed up,which was not tolerated. the cast was finished and a nice dog won that day. all dogs have deficiencies and they will be exposed if ran enough . at the end of the day i was satisfied that the best dog that day had the ribbon laying in front of it at the end of the day!!!!!