Breaking a beagle on deer

[gwyoung]

Lowell, On behalf of hunters everywhere ,apology accepted. How about labeling the ones that you think have something to prove as " people" instead of hunters and "hunters " wont be cast in a negative light, as all who own hounds and use E-collars are not hunters anyway. As far as being able to voice an opinion I believe you more than qualify for that, but keep in mind that you are likely to encounter other opinions that are contrary to yours as well, it is a forum, debate as hard as you want ( I do ). if some dis-agree with you ( as I do) they simply dis-agree , don't get all jacked out of shape over it, I think it would be bad for the blood pressure!

[smokedawg]

Different people do it different ways. This is what I do several times a year and I have not had a deer race since i started doing it this way. We have several rye grass fields that we plant every year and about 30 minutes before dark on up until late at night they will be full of deer. I will load up some of the young dogs and drive right out into the middle of the field where the deer were standing, drop the tailgate and just sit down and watch them. They usually will run right across the deer tracks and head for the edge of the field by the thickets to look for a rabbit. If any of them happen to pay the deer scent any attention and flag their tail or start running the track, I give em a good jolt from the e-collar. Most times they never pay it one bit of attention if they have had the lesson before but usually a first year gundog that has not been through the drill will take the bait. If i have to shock them, I load them up and we head to the lease to go find a rabbit to turn out on. After they run the rabbit, I praise them and load them back up and go home. After doing this for several years, deer running is a thing of the past. I have owned 2 in my lifetime that never could learn this lesson. They would pass on the deer in the field because they knew the drill but would run one when hunting. I gave them to some deer dog guys and we all are happy now. I never take a dog out rabbit hunting or running with my pack that has not been through the deer in the rye grass drill yet. It saves a lot of headaches.

[hurryup]

Easy, use very light shocks in the yard preceded by tone, no pup is ready to go to the field until it handles properly and knows basic commands. It needs to know what you expect of it. Sorry, not all are sadistic, just the ones who like to do it to prove how macho they are. Truth is, training pups requires time, patience, and a reasonable mind set. Enough said as I am sure that I don't have the vast experience needed to state an opinion on this board.

You dont have to fry your pup till it can't walk..More good dogs are ruined than ever make it because of bad handling..Consistancy is very important to.

[pilotknob]

Let a dog stay out a night or two around here you might get your collars back if you have GPS trackers on them.Provided the coyotes don't eat them too.But that's one way to do it,it will break them from deer for sure.

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

I see many thing wrong with lowells idea of letting them out all night ... Lowell first is a nice very god man have met him., have bougth a dog from him might in the future who knows.

1-yotes they might not survive the night. 2- they might get run over by a vehicle.3-they might go to someones house who wants a beagle pet.

I am sure the list can continue.. but also I never put my pups on deer on purpose and some never run a deer in their life. I always run younger dogs with older broke dogs that will tell on them. I do have gps and shockers. I would never allow a pup to get out of range ,the pup is there because 1-i chose to breed to have a pup from the cross so I want him or her.no way I am letting them stay gone all night aint happening.

I don't have nothing to prove by shocking a dog hard , I am saving him from getting lost ,and from doing the wrong thing. I am the teacher..

to some I guess your being macho if you grab you kid and almost jerk his head off when he is fixing to run in street in front of a car and you grab him and jerk him back hard. lol.. your saving the dog probably around here for sure.. anyways I been doing this a long time as I am 55 now started when I was about 10 somewhere in there . all I know is it works. as with any method of correction I always pet them up good when they get back to me as I want them coming to me ,knowing that is the safety place,..good luck however you do it .aND GOD BLESS.!

[smokedawg]

Same in my area as far as letting one run for 2 or 3 days and leaving him out. We are infested with coyotes and also their are blacktop roads everywhere with plenty traffic. Last, but not least, a lot of folks have big aggressive watchdogs in their yards that will kill a beagle also. In my experience if I dont get my dog back right away and he spends the night out, 50-50 chance that I never get the dog back. I believe that once a dog can run a rabbit and knows what rabbit scent smells like, he can smell the difference in a rabbit and every other animal in the woods and should be held accountable. I have only had 2 that I failed to break permanently off deer and I have never had one that I broke off deer with the e-collar turn shy and not hunt again. Never ruined one yet.

[lowell robertson]

Have been wondering how some of you fellows trained hounds before the days of e-collars?

[pilotknob]

Put a lot of them down because they had to many trash races and liked it.

[Mikka]

Dogs are smart! Had a one year old male that would run deer! So I put the collar on him and waited for the deer to high tail it right across an open field with my male in tow! When it would happen, I would shock him until he would go into full somersault in the field. Took him only a couple times to realize that it was okay to run deer right out to the field but not for himself to step in the field! He would just stop dead at the edge and watch the deer run across the field. A couple more shocks in the bush changed his mind about deer running. Now he's steady on hare. He won't even put his nose down in a deer track. Thank you garmin and tritronics!

[smokedawg]

Before I had e-collars we tried every way possible to break them and most times failed miserably. We put billy goats in the dogyard, rolled dogs down hill in a barrel with a deer hide, hung tarsal glands on a hot wire, put scent pads with deer scent on their collar for weeks at a time, cut them off while running a hot deer track and beat them senseless, put them in a pen with a semi-pet 12 point buck and let him whip them, we even took an old barber's chair and built a wooden box on it, put deer leg in the box with a dog and spun him around til he threw up. Guess what, end result was that it was never consistently effective. Before the e-collar we finally took the attitude that they either run deer or they dont. Anything we ever had that ran trash was given to the deer dog boys. Guess what, most of what we gave to the deer dog boys could smoke a rabbit better than what we kept but we had to stop it somehow so we got rid of all deer runners every year. Now we can teach them to leave it alone and keep the good hard hunting gundogs around. Im old school as it gets but when somebody invents something that makes my life easier, I welcome it with open arms. Their is way more trash in the woods to run than their was back then. I cant imagine trying to rabbit hunt with a pack of hounds with no e-collar. They are like american express, dont leave home without it.

[snowshoehareguide]

since e collars been adustable from transmitter ive changed the way i use them-- i would rather tingle the dog several times over a longer period of time ==than one big burn-- its not because im squeamish or trying to be politically correct - lol - its because it has worked better for me- ---- ive had too many had a relapse with the big burn method- or not hunt at all with collar on-- i use ecollar on every dog, every time -- quite often use tone or lowest setting to make them handle-- trash breaking ,, timing is important == anytime i see one show too much interest in a deer track i like to bump them with e- collar --and keep right on hunting ----i dont need to see the deer - just know its a fresh track - usualy on snow or on dirt roads after it rained --- its moose as much as its deer here lol i dont wait tll they are running the deer- i let them put their nose down long enough to know its a deer - if they show any excitement ,,,i bump them with collar- -- repeat this a few times over a whole season ---i dont look at it as a one time thing my goal is dog that hunts and handles the same with or without collar on -- its worth spending some time ==

[JCM]

since e collars been adustable from transmitter ive changed the way i use them-- i would rather tingle the dog several times over a longer period of time ==than one big burn-- its not because im squeamish or trying to be politically correct - lol - its because it has worked better for me- ---- ive had too many had a relapse with the big burn method- or not hunt at all with collar on-- i use ecollar on every dog, every time -- quite often use tone or lowest setting to make them handle-- trash breaking ,, timing is important == anytime i see one show too much interest in a deer track i like to bump them with e- collar --and keep right on hunting ----i dont need to see the deer - just know its a fresh track - usualy on snow or on dirt roads after it rained --- its moose as much as its deer here lol i dont wait tll they are running the deer- i let them put their nose down long enough to know its a deer - if they show any excitement ,,,i bump them with collar- -- repeat this a few times over a whole season ---i dont look at it as a one time thing my goal is dog that hunts and handles the same with or without collar on -- its worth spending some time ==

Great advice!

To me, the goal isn't a broke dog at 8 months old. It's making a young dog the best he can be his whole life. A little correction here and there over the first several months out running works best.

[mud]

I have tons of respect for Lowell Robertson. A true hounds man for over 55 years plus. Everybody does things different I guess. On deer breaking I always try to head a problem off before it starts. I only hunt young dogs with straight broke rabbit dogs. That keeps down lots of problems for me. My collar is used for handling more than anything. However the times I must use it I put the hammer down. I put young dogs in all the rabbits I can. I hunt with people that have straight dogs. If for some reason someone goes with us that I am not familiar with I always leave young dogs at home. For me the best medicine is gun season. Killing rabbits for young dogs is a great way to help establish trash free dogs. I know some people like to turn dogs out on deer and go from there. If that works for them then more power to them. Several years back I went with a guy who was trying to deer break a dog. He took it to a fellow that broke dogs for several people. The guy also had a huge running pen. He took the dog with a collar and put it a stall with a deer. That deer stomped and mauled that dog while the guy shocked the dog on 6.Thats not how I would do it but the guy said it broke the dog from deer running. So I guess no one glove fits all

[pilotknob]

Use to be a guy south of Louisiville that had a 5 a starting pen that kept a billy goat in it.He had a 10x10 kennel in it with an opening just big enough for a beagle to get through and a couple of dog houses.If one got after the goat it would run until it found a good clearing then it would make a stand and start whipping dogs.Once they got that goat riled up he would have every dog in that pen in the kennel in no time.It worked about 50% of the time on hard core deer runners.Worked better on pups,after the pups were started and running good he would put the goat in there with them for a few days as a finishing touch.It was funny he put foam pipe insulation on its horns with yellow duct tape.He would have every dog or pup in there holed up in that kennel,they would bark and growl at it but none of them would come out of there.They could run a rabbit right by it and he would not even look at them as long as none of them chased him he was fine.

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

Lowell. I was younger ran a lot faster and carried a whipping stick cut them, off beat the crap out of them ...but I never actually had many of those as a kid at all. and now I still don't have many just 1 here or there with very young dogs. ...