Patch hounds

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

most.patch.dogs like other beagles paPERS ARE GOOD BUT AS OTHERS SOME ARE NOT I AM SURE just watch who u deal with

[S.R.Patch]

Edited due to getting off topic.

What I meant about breeding them correctly is, my Two Spot bitch is full of old time patch and Lazy Acres but from the two litters I've gotten from her the pups seem late to develop into rabbit dogs. I guess I got spoilt on the early desire of the old stupe pups. Adding the Yates in a limited dose never seemed to hurt. But there something soft in Two Spot that's taken the early wallop out of the early desire and instinct. The ole stup pups seemed to come from the womb wanting to hunt and run something at birth...lol

Scrub,
I heard Jimmy Lee had the money to go buy about any hounds he wanted and he liked them fast. You must of bought yours from Jack just before he sold to Dennis. My buddy Steve went to see about getting us a couple of them as Jack was selling but he wanted to sell the whole pack together, about 17 hounds as I remember.
You'd need alot of ground and time for those independent type hounds. I asked Buck Wiseman of the Clear Creek Beagles how he handled hunting his formal pack and he said, the first thing was to pick from puppies those that wanted to bond early on. It was amazing to see him and his whip exercise 50 hounds through the hills of Kentucky.

[scrubkennels]

yes JLT bought and bred fast hounds price wasnt an issue. Jack sold kennel and AKC regestered kennel name SUPERIOR to Don Mann in haskel oklahoma. Don sold kennel and kennel name to Dennis Goad.

[jpratt]

Scrub,
Here is a couple short clips of my patch hounds. Mostly sugar ridge kennel on top going back to Pennyroyal Patch Casey (stupe) and the bottom superior patch which most goes back to superior allpatch Daego or superior patch cane.


https://youtu.be/7WyI3DIgt3E
https://youtu.be/lVfPqAHGLNM

[lowell robertson]

I use the kennel name of Sand Lick Patche, I'm sure that I would be considered dishonest for using the work "Patche" but I started using it before I realized that Patch was an AKC Kennel name. The first Patch hounds that I owned were grade dogs kept and bred by a friend and myself with our original stock coming from a kennel in northern Indiana, don 't remember the fellows name. I went on to AKC reg. and acquired stock from Terry and Randy VanOsdale. I have continued to use Plowboy's Bossman, Rhonda, Warden Yates, PumpkinPatch Blue Moon, Crisco and now a hound I call "Twister" from Randy Phipps. Twister is by Warden Yates and out of an excellent female named Alderman's Big Briar Patche Wendy which I owned and gave to a local friend to gun hunt. I'm sure no one cares about my history so here is my opinion. Patch, Patche hounds are fearless in the brush and will not quit even with a great loss of blood. They are loyal to one person and indifferent to all others. A little reckless with the line bur have above average speed. They will breed true and I no longer have to "cull" any hounds and am content to breed and run what I have. I basically agree with Preacher and LR Patch along with some others who I have become friends with. I really don't care about kennel names, so-called "Lines", I will continue to line breed and enjoy pack running.

[S.R.Patch]

Most of mine were line bred pennyroyal patch Casey, jack Palmer had most of his line bred to Casey. Jack liked casey, others did not. He got his first hounds from the patch kennel in the 50's or 60's. Then he brought in superior patch rawhide who came from the patch kennel around 1998, I owned two dogs out of rawhide and sissy. Outstanding hounds, big hound heads and body's. Both over 15 inches. The patches I've owned, most have been over 15. Might be why not many are trailed. After a couple of breedings I quit sending AKC papers off, so mine turned into grade hounds. To be honest I don't know why I was breeding other lines into the patch blood, i gave em a double shot of turbo and a dash of ace in the hole. I liked what I had, mine where tight mouthed and rough around the edges and still are but that's what I like. If I was buying today I'd want to see some of their relitives run, and if the person doing the selling can't tell you how the grand or great grand parents ran they don't know their dogs.

Did you see or talk to Jimmy Lee or Jack about Pine Patch Stupe?

I talked to Leroy Miller who bred Lehners Lucy and Linus, then talked to John Lehner who bought them and then sold them to Terry & Steve. Steve ran Lucy and said she was a solid medium speed hound, nothing flashy but nothing faulty. I talked to Terry about Linus and he said he was a stud dog not a rabbit dog. By that I took it was the breeding behind the hound he based his breeding on. I had bought Lelawana as a puppy from Leroy in 97', she was from a yr latter litter. She was a go-getter until she reached 3 yr old, then she settled into a flat medium speed track running hound, not a terrible thing but she wouldn't pull up to the other hounds when they had the track and that caused alot of disruption, so I sold her to Terry as he wanted the breeding. I like line running but also the desire to get up on the game and she developed into one that was content to simply follow, doing her own thing. The blending of the Yates and old Stupe with selection seemed to complement and produce a competitive tighter line and check dog. It is just my preference over a too loose or too tied to the line anchor type. With the way rabbit populations cycle, it demands a hound that can adjust to account for their rabbit and we need all the help we can get. lol

Lowell, I don't think you were dishonest for using the patch name, AKC has no problem informing you if your trying to register a name that is a paid up kennel name. If the kennel name goes unpaid, it becomes unregistered is my take on it. We all put patch on our hounds for a number of years because their pedigrees were all full of patch hounds from yrs past, not necessarily bred directly from the patch kennel. I never knew of Mr Capozzi when I first got my hounds and Willet had been dead 25 yrs. My understanding is, it was only when someone tried to re-register the patch name for their own that AKC notified Mike and that put the kibosh on using the name when he paid for the renewal. The same thing happened once to Willet,

[scrubkennels]

Double thumbs up. JPratt. We need to get together this fall and run some swampers. Mine do good on cotton tails but can open the throttle wide open on swamps. But I'm sure you already know that. Lol. I live near mcalester. There's another patch runner around stillwell ok. He's a good guy to deal with. Ran with ed stone and Dennis goad one morning i think Dennis had cane don't know for sure but he had some fine hounds. Anyhing that goes back to superior kennels is outstanding in my openion.

[scrubkennels]

I use the kennel name of Sand Lick Patche, I'm sure that I would be considered dishonest for using the work "Patche" but I started using it before I realized that Patch was an AKC Kennel name. The first Patch hounds that I owned were grade dogs kept and bred by a friend and myself with our original stock coming from a kennel in northern Indiana, don 't remember the fellows name. I went on to AKC reg. and acquired stock from Terry and Randy VanOsdale. I have continued to use Plowboy's Bossman, Rhonda, Warden Yates, PumpkinPatch Blue Moon, Crisco and now a hound I call "Twister" from Randy Phipps. Twister is by Warden Yates and out of an excellent female named Alderman's Big Briar Patche Wendy which I owned and gave to a local friend to gun hunt. I'm sure no one cares about my history so here is my opinion. Patch, Patche hounds are fearless in the brush and will not quit even with a great loss of blood. They are loyal to one person and indifferent to all others. A little reckless with the line bur have above average speed. They will breed true and I no longer have to "cull" any hounds and am content to breed and run what I have. I basically agree with Preacher and LR Patch along with some others who I have become friends with. I really don't care about kennel names, so-called "Lines", I will continue to line breed and enjoy pack running.

Agreed I have a saying that I use when some can't grasp why I like patch hounds. I've never had to put down a full patch dog for NOT performing. Its just in them to run.

[scrubkennels]

Most of mine were line bred pennyroyal patch Casey, jack Palmer had most of his line bred to Casey. Jack liked casey, others did not. He got his first hounds from the patch kennel in the 50's or 60's. Then he brought in superior patch rawhide who came from the patch kennel around 1998, I owned two dogs out of rawhide and sissy. Outstanding hounds, big hound heads and body's. Both over 15 inches. The patches I've owned, most have been over 15. Might be why not many are trailed. After a couple of breedings I quit sending AKC papers off, so mine turned into grade hounds. To be honest I don't know why I was breeding other lines into the patch blood, i gave em a double shot of turbo and a dash of ace in the hole. I liked what I had, mine where tight mouthed and rough around the edges and still are but that's what I like. If I was buying today I'd want to see some of their relitives run, and if the person doing the selling can't tell you how the grand or great grand parents ran they don't know their dogs.

Did you see or talk to Jimmy Lee or Jack about Pine Patch Stupe? Not that I remember, the few times I visited with jack he overwhelmed with information on his dogs. I had dogs from him, Jimmy lee, and ed stone. I was trying to get a grasp on how to breed them. What I got from the visits was breed the traits you like and if you get a cull, take em on a short walk and don't bring em back. All I remember about Jimmy lee speed speed and more speed. He said if he heard of a fast dog he would go run with it and buy it.

I talked to Leroy Miller who bred Lehners Lucy and Linus, then talked to John Lehner who bought them and then sold them to Terry & Steve. Steve ran Lucy and said she was a solid medium speed hound, nothing flashy but nothing faulty. I talked to Terry about Linus and he said he was a stud dog not a rabbit dog. By that I took it was the breeding behind the hound he based his breeding on. I had bought Lelawana as a puppy from Leroy in 97', she was from a yr latter litter. She was a go-getter until she reached 3 yr old, then she settled into a flat medium speed track running hound, not a terrible thing but she wouldn't pull up to the other hounds when they had the track and that caused alot of disruption, so I sold her to Terry as he wanted the breeding. I like line running but also the desire to get up on the game and she developed into one that was content to simply follow, doing her own thing. The blending of the Yates and old Stupe with selection seemed to complement and produce a competitive tighter line and check dog. It is just my preference over a too loose or too tied to the line anchor type. With the way rabbit populations cycle, it demands a hound that can adjust to account for their rabbit and we need all the help we can get. lol

Lowell, I don't think you were dishonest for using the patch name, AKC has no problem informing you if your trying to register a name that is a paid up kennel name. If the kennel name goes unpaid, it becomes unregistered is my take on it. We all put patch on our hounds for a number of years because their pedigrees were all full of patch hounds from yrs past, not necessarily bred directly from the patch kennel. I never knew of Mr Capozzi when I first got my hounds and Willet had been dead 25 yrs. My understanding is, it was only when someone tried to re-register the patch name for their own that AKC notified Mike and that put the kibosh on using the name when he paid for the renewal. The same thing happened once to Willet,

[jpratt]

Scrub,
Sounds good to me. We try to make a trip or 2 down too Wister for swamps but mainly run cottontails around Fort Gibson lake which is where I live In Okay. We used to run with Dennis alot and am friends with one of his relatives. Sure miss those days having a Pack of a dozen all Patch hounds running. Those were the days

[beaglestotrack]

How come u dont hear of more fc patch hounds seems like after 50 years of breeding you would hear of more that are good enough to compete in trials.. I have only ever herd of about 5 ever

[Shady Grove Beagles]

beaglestotrack raises a question I myself have wondered about many times.In 1992 after a 21 year stint of being heavily addicted to tree dogs I sold off my big hounds and returned to the beagles of my youth.
I lived in New Hampshire and got quite involved with the Large Pack on Hare trials and attended some trials in N.H.,Vermont,Maine,Massachusetts and New York.
After keeping registered coonhounds for many years I had a pretty good idea about researching hound lines and decerning what I should be considering in regards to a line ofA.K.C. beagles.
I talked to LOTS of folks at trials about their hounds and how they were bred.Talked to lots of the old timers too.Talked to several from up-state N.Y. who followed the trial circuit pretty regular.
I can tell you that I NEVER even heard of a Patch dog when I lived in the northeast and attended trials and hung out with different beaglers!
It wasn't until I moved to Tennessee in the fall of 1995 that I first heard about Patch beagles------I thought they were some southern line of cottontail hounds.
Even to this day I hunt with friends in Maine,N.H. and Vermont and none of them have ever had any Patch breeding and I've followed the trial results faithfully in Better Beagling for the past 25 years and can't recall seeing any hounds listed displaying a Patch pedigree.
I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on why the Patch hounds have not been popular in the part of the country where they originated on hare but enjoy some popularity in the south on the cottontails?????????

[Chris Hornick]

I have the kennel records of the patch kennel since the beginning. Many pups were sold but my opinion is that the buyers of Patch hounds are not those entering trials. Personally I've been breeding them almost 25 years here and don't think I've sold 1 that was entered in a trial. In general patch hounds don't do as well in trials because they are a little tighter mouthed and generally a little looser in the check than what is being promoted at LPH trials.

Mike Capozzi was a dear, dear friend and he sold hounds (for over 40 yrs) to a different clientele than what enters trials. The "hot" bloodline or "flavor of the month bloodline" was always preferred by those chasing ribbons.

With all that said, I know there have been a few that have produced trial winners, for example Powchay Patch produced some field winners in NY back in the early 2000s. I think Ron Sadler's bitchline, which was patch-based, produced some field winners. The Hakey's in NH have placed some Patch hounds also.

I have sold hounds in NH, Vermont and NY and know of those in Maine & Canada that are hunting with a Patch hound.

[scrubkennels]

I was talked into coming to a field trial and bring a dog or two. I entered scrubs lilbill patcher a full white patch and scrubs ol jack patcher a full tri patch. Both out of jack palmers breeding. Lilbill came in second and ol jack came in sixth. But field trailing wasn't for me. I didn't need a judge telling me what kind of dogs I had. I already knew.

[Hare Chaser]

"In general patch hounds don't do as well in trials because they are a little tighter mouthed and generally a little looser in the check than what is being promoted at LPH trials."

When you say tighter mouthed it raises a question for me. In the nearly 40 years I've had hare hounds virtually every tight mouthed hound I have had has struggled to sustain a chase for any length of time in cold temps and dry powder snow over 6" in depth. I know this line of hounds was originated in Northern NY but when I hear a statement like that it raises questions for me. I don't know the patch dogs at all but I know very well what it takes for a top snow hound in Northern VT & NH and have yet to see a tight mouthed one perform consistently in what our winters usually bring here.