Outlaw OR Outdoors man?

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Jim Stinnett
Posts: 996
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2002 3:02 pm
Location: Lake Village, IN
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Outlaw OR Outdoors man?

Post by Jim Stinnett » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:02 pm

I have been in a mood all day. I have been thinking about my dog running this morning like many many of you do. You know, who looked the best, hows my pup doing, who jumped the rabbits.....Oh Yes! Beagling & all the joy that comes with it! Beagles are not what I have been thinking about all day...Oh no! Not one bit! Some of you might know me, others wont. I live in NW Indiana in a small farming town like you would find in any state in the good old USA. I am 50 years old & I have been hunting with hounds most of my life. Me & my Dad started hunting Coon Dogs when I was 12 years old.

I have had coon hounds & currently have beagles & mountain cur squirrel dogs.

So back to the story, this morning I was running a 5 year old female & a 10 month old female. They had a couple good races & a few not so good. Summer time running at its best. I had been out 2 or 3 hours & the dogs had drove one out deep, they where around 350 yards & I could not hear them barking & I was not seeing them move on the Garmin. So I started calling them in. I called & I toned the dogs, looked at the Garmin, they where coming back. The older female came in. The young dog got about 125 yards away & was starting to head past me. I know we have all been here. I called & toned, She was still going. Away now. She was like 250 yards in the other direction now & I hit her with the shock collar, on 3. Called & toned. Looked at the Garmin & she was now closer to he next road then she was to me. So I headed to the truck. When I got to the truck, after loading the other dog I looked at the Garmin & she appeared to be close to the next road over. So I headed that way in my truck. As I get to the stop sign, getting ready to turn left I see police lights. Now I am thinking, oh great someone hit my dog. I drive up to the police car where I see my dog on a short rope & the police man holding her. As I get out of my truck I notice her Garmin collar & shock collar laying in front of the police cruiser. I say to the police man what is going on? He says he has saved this dog, it was almost to he highway. I ask him why he took her collars off? He said this dog has 2 shock collars on & I have already called the humane society. I said you called the Humane Society? He said yes, this dog is clearly being abused.
I gotta say.....That pizzed me off! I say to him, I roll up in a $30,000 4 wheel drive with a $800 dog house in the back for her. She has $500 worth of training collars on her & she isn't even worth $200 & you think I am abusing her? He said this is your dog? I said yes, why do you think I stopped. I have her tracker right her in my hand. How do you think I knew where she was. I then said you had to get to her 4 or 5 minutes before I did. In that time you have all ready decided she was abused, called the humane society & took her collars off. I then said & the reason is you tree huggers have no idea what hunting dogs do or go through. He gets a little snappy & says I run a K9 dog! I then say, I bet he is a bad azz but to me he is a Foo Foo dog, how many hours can he run through the black berry bushes casing rabbits in 80 degree temps? At this point he tells me I better clam down. When he said that, I thought dang I am going to jail today. I then say, I haven't done one thing wrong. So why are you telling me to calm down. He then asks to see my driver licence. I was like of course you want to run my licence now, I have pissed you off & your hoping that I have something on my record so you can take me in. So he goes to his car. I take the collars & the dog to the truck to load them. Then I take off my boots & put my shoes on. He comes back & hands me my licence. I ask him if he got what he was looking for? He looked at me with those pizzed off eyes. I then said I dont have a record, no warrants, not even a speeding ticket in years. I then tell him I am not an Outlaw, I am a Out doors man!

Got in my truck & headed home. I dont know about you other beaglers but I am sick & tired of people thinking we abuse our dogs!
If someone says, Shock collars, a bloody ear, bloody tail - Tree huggers think you are the devil himself!
We are not stupid redneck hillbillys because we like to hunt, run dogs, fish & continue to enjoy a AMERICAN TRADITION!
BRIAR BUSTEN BEAGLES
jstinnett@upgen.us
AKC & NKC REGISTERED BEAGLES
LAKE VILLAGE, IN
HOME OF: BRIAR BUSTEN SKEETER
PCH CHAMPION / GRAND SHOW CHAMPION

span870
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:28 am

Re: Outlaw OR Outdoors man?

Post by span870 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:59 pm

And to top it off, it is illegal in the state in Indiana to remove a collar from a hunting dog that isn't yours.

Aubrey Holcombe
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:54 am
Location: Royston, Georgia
Contact:

Re: Outlaw OR Outdoors man?

Post by Aubrey Holcombe » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:03 am

Same Law, here in Georgia, glad everything turn out well for you son. I see where you are 50 and I think you handled that situation very well, at my age I don't think I could have did that good, he most likely would, have Lockd up this Ga. Red Neck !! I was 77 June 30th. but don't like it one bit if anyone fools with my Hunting pals.

Keep Looking Up!

D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>> :dance:
ARHA Hall Of Fame, own "The Daddy Rabbit Kennels", Royston, Georgia

FRENCHMAN
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:19 am
Location: North Central Indiana

Re: Outlaw OR Outdoors man?

Post by FRENCHMAN » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:26 pm

span870 wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:59 pm
And to top it off, it is illegal in the state in Indiana to remove a collar from a hunting dog that isn't yours.
Span870 I live in INdiana and I am not aware of this law! I would like to know more about it! Thanks Frenchman!

Casey Harner
Posts: 3576
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:49 pm
Location: indiana

Re: Outlaw OR Outdoors man?

Post by Casey Harner » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:11 am

Jim Stinnett wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:02 pm
I have been in a mood all day. I have been thinking about my dog running this morning like many many of you do. You know, who looked the best, hows my pup doing, who jumped the rabbits.....Oh Yes! Beagling & all the joy that comes with it! Beagles are not what I have been thinking about all day...Oh no! Not one bit! Some of you might know me, others wont. I live in NW Indiana in a small farming town like you would find in any state in the good old USA. I am 50 years old & I have been hunting with hounds most of my life. Me & my Dad started hunting Coon Dogs when I was 12 years old.

I have had coon hounds & currently have beagles & mountain cur squirrel dogs.

So back to the story, this morning I was running a 5 year old female & a 10 month old female. They had a couple good races & a few not so good. Summer time running at its best. I had been out 2 or 3 hours & the dogs had drove one out deep, they where around 350 yards & I could not hear them barking & I was not seeing them move on the Garmin. So I started calling them in. I called & I toned the dogs, looked at the Garmin, they where coming back. The older female came in. The young dog got about 125 yards away & was starting to head past me. I know we have all been here. I called & toned, She was still going. Away now. She was like 250 yards in the other direction now & I hit her with the shock collar, on 3. Called & toned. Looked at the Garmin & she was now closer to he next road then she was to me. So I headed to the truck. When I got to the truck, after loading the other dog I looked at the Garmin & she appeared to be close to the next road over. So I headed that way in my truck. As I get to the stop sign, getting ready to turn left I see police lights. Now I am thinking, oh great someone hit my dog. I drive up to the police car where I see my dog on a short rope & the police man holding her. As I get out of my truck I notice her Garmin collar & shock collar laying in front of the police cruiser. I say to the police man what is going on? He says he has saved this dog, it was almost to he highway. I ask him why he took her collars off? He said this dog has 2 shock collars on & I have already called the humane society. I said you called the Humane Society? He said yes, this dog is clearly being abused.
I gotta say.....That pizzed me off! I say to him, I roll up in a $30,000 4 wheel drive with a $800 dog house in the back for her. She has $500 worth of training collars on her & she isn't even worth $200 & you think I am abusing her? He said this is your dog? I said yes, why do you think I stopped. I have her tracker right her in my hand. How do you think I knew where she was. I then said you had to get to her 4 or 5 minutes before I did. In that time you have all ready decided she was abused, called the humane society & took her collars off. I then said & the reason is you tree huggers have no idea what hunting dogs do or go through. He gets a little snappy & says I run a K9 dog! I then say, I bet he is a bad azz but to me he is a Foo Foo dog, how many hours can he run through the black berry bushes casing rabbits in 80 degree temps? At this point he tells me I better clam down. When he said that, I thought dang I am going to jail today. I then say, I haven't done one thing wrong. So why are you telling me to calm down. He then asks to see my driver licence. I was like of course you want to run my licence now, I have pissed you off & your hoping that I have something on my record so you can take me in. So he goes to his car. I take the collars & the dog to the truck to load them. Then I take off my boots & put my shoes on. He comes back & hands me my licence. I ask him if he got what he was looking for? He looked at me with those pizzed off eyes. I then said I dont have a record, no warrants, not even a speeding ticket in years. I then tell him I am not an Outlaw, I am a Out doors man!

Got in my truck & headed home. I dont know about you other beaglers but I am sick & tired of people thinking we abuse our dogs!
If someone says, Shock collars, a bloody ear, bloody tail - Tree huggers think you are the devil himself!
We are not stupid redneck hillbillys because we like to hunt, run dogs, fish & continue to enjoy a AMERICAN TRADITION!

Abuse is leaving a hunting dog in a kennel for its whole life.
Isaiah 53:5
Philippians 3:13-14

RIP 2015 UKC Performance Pack Nationals Registered Winner Harner's Briar Bashin' Blaze
Harner's Game Time
Harner's Blue Jack

Speed is fine, accuracy is final.

warddog
Posts: 2213
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 4:58 pm
Location: Jasonville, Indiana

Re: Outlaw OR Outdoors man?

Post by warddog » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:37 am

FRENCHMAN wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:26 pm
span870 wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:59 pm
And to top it off, it is illegal in the state in Indiana to remove a collar from a hunting dog that isn't yours.
Span870 I live in INdiana and I am not aware of this law! I would like to know more about it! Thanks Frenchman!
I live and hunt in Indiana too. I have never heard of this law much less read it so I would also like to know where it is written. I think Michigan had a bill up last year with this very issue that never got passed even though Michigan is much more dog hunter friendly than Indians is. Dogs are considered personal property in Michigan but NOT Indiana. There is also much case law on the books in Indiana for farmers/landowners shooting dogs and the bad thing about Indiana is that it has severe laws about dogs as they must be under the control of the owner or person with them. I have stated on here before about being educated many years ago when coon hunting and the dogs got off onto property we didn't have permission to hunt. The dogs were shot, one killed and the others loaded with shot. One gets a pretty good indication of the "law" in Indiana when they actually sit through a court case as a witness for the boy that get his $1500.oo coonhound killed the first night he hunted it after he just bought him! here is an article with a "case law" citing that may make what I have stated ring true for Indiana dog hunters. There seems to be a lot of old time myths or beliefs by hunters that just are NOT backed by the law.

Some states, however, allow farmers to shoot any dog that is, in the words of the Indiana statute, "roaming over the country unattended." Under this statute, an appeals court upheld the right of a farmer to shoot dogs he said were trying to get into his chicken pen in the middle of the night. (Puckett v. Miller, 381 N.E.2d 1087 (Ind. App. 1978).) The dogs, two coonhounds, had been hunting with their owner but got separated from him in a heavy rainstorm about 2 a.m. (For the uninitiated, raccoon hunting is done at night.) Under the relatively severe Indiana law, it made no difference that the dogs were bothering the chickens; their hours were numbered as soon as they got away from their master.
If you lose a dog to a trigger-happy farmer, in most instances, there is absolutely no way to prove that it wasn't doing what the farmer or rancher who shot it says it was doing. The only other witness is likely to be the dog, and it isn't talking. So the lesson is simple: If you live in a rural area or close to one, NEVER let your dog run loose off your property. Farmers may shoot first and ask questions later, if at all.

steve w
Posts: 491
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:02 pm
Location: sw mi

Re: Outlaw OR Outdoors man?

Post by steve w » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:46 pm

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(zplygv ... cl-750-70a A law similar to what span 870 says has been passed here in Michigan. It would not surprise me if you had something similar in Indiana. I think also if anybody harms a dog in anyway anymore you have an uphill battle if the owner goes after you for it. You might be a land owner or farmer and have some laws on your side but the animal cruelty laws are pretty strong and as Jim Stinnett found out the L.E.O are not exactly in the dark about. With the shows on animal planet and other cable channels on animal cruelty and actors coming to all the critters rescue not to mention H.S.U.S. propaganda it's no wonder when someone see's a hunting dog do what it does it sometimes ends up in a mess. I hate to say it but I might as well because in reality I guess I practice it but we must be "politically correct " about hunting our dogs. By this I mean I go out of my way to avoid conflict where ever it may be found, I don't run where the chance of trespass of me or dog is high, don't drop on top of other hunters, and try to gracefully end any conflicts that may occur, as inevitably when you run dogs they will. I see the day if we are not careful we may not be able to run dogs, or be so regulated that it would not be any fun, face it we are a minority and would not be missed if we just went away, be it on our own or forced out.

warddog
Posts: 2213
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 4:58 pm
Location: Jasonville, Indiana

Re: Outlaw OR Outdoors man?

Post by warddog » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:20 am

that is the same law they were having trouble passing in 2016 from what I read. if Indiana has anything similar I have not seen it and would be interested if someone has it. Indiana laws pertinent to dogs and/or hunting are very much different than those in Michigan. Michigan seems to be much more hunter/dog friendly where Indiana is more friendly towards land owners. This is one of the biggest reasons my family does NOT hunt like we used to when we were younger. Another BIG thing we are seeing is about piece of property that is big enough to hunt on that is private is being put into the hands of HUNTING LEASE companies. It's all bout the money now days and a farmer that has anything that they can not cut down, till and or plant they turn over to a lease agent. There is a farmer with property adjacent to mine that is mostly tillable except about 4 acres that has a water shed ditch that totally floods turning any rain downpour that is under a hunting lease. My other neighbor and I laughed at it because we said we highly doubted that any hunter would pay to hunt a 4 acre piece of grown up ditch surrounded by farm filed on three sides and private property on the 4th side. I have been saying for years that the time will come when hunters will either be confined to state owned property or purchase their own and in the state of Indiana the state does little to nothing for small game hunting. Another thing I have seen is that a lot of the state property is actually still owned by the mines and they are taking some of it back. The one west of Dugger, In has had that happen and they even had to remove the state wildlife office there. The mine has then traded parts and parcels of that property to people owning property that they want to mine and there is private property intermixed within what used to all be state hunting land. So0me of them have big lakes on them as well and they are now not available to the public to fish. Sorry to say but if one lives in a state that is not hunter friendly and one that doesn't have a big State land presence, hunting especially with dogs that can not be held to a specific plot of property is becoming harder and harder. Right now today the older generation of farmers(mom and pop farms) that were actually hunters themselves are all but gone and corporate farming has taken over. Not only has the mindset of being anti-hunting, non trespassing taken hold but these big farmers employ big machines and plant every inch of property they can. Timber is cleared, old mine spill banks leveled, ditch banks and fence rows cleared, planted and what is left turned over to the hands of a hunting lease agent. I can show people ALL of this within 10 miles of my house and this used to be some of the wildest property to hunt when I was a kid!

Hare Chaser
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Outlaw OR Outdoors man?

Post by Hare Chaser » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:17 am

"I hate to say it but I might as well because in reality I guess I practice it but we must be "politically correct " about hunting our dogs. By this I mean I go out of my way to avoid conflict where ever it may be found, I don't run where the chance of trespass of me or dog is high, don't drop on top of other hunters, and try to gracefully end any conflicts that may occur, as inevitably when you run dogs they will. I see the day if we are not careful we may not be able to run dogs, or be so regulated that it would not be any fun, face it we are a minority and would not be missed if we just went away, be it on our own or forced out."

Kudos to you my friend! You and I are on the same page with that. It is NOT being politically correct. It's called being an honorable and responsible sportsman that is respectful of landowners, other sportsmen and the law. That's a badge I'll join you in wearing until the end.

I love having a video camera to record my hounds and hunts but those who have no governance of what they throw up on social media unknowingly aid and abet the anti's with unneeded ammunition to fight with. Those who insist on posting distasteful video footage will be the first in the line of whiners when the day comes their privileges are revoked. Hunting and free casting of hounds is NOT a right but rather a privilege which can be revoked at the will of the people in any state in the union.

warddog
Posts: 2213
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 4:58 pm
Location: Jasonville, Indiana

Re: Outlaw OR Outdoors man?

Post by warddog » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:03 pm

Hare Chaser wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:17 am
"I hate to say it but I might as well because in reality I guess I practice it but we must be "politically correct " about hunting our dogs. By this I mean I go out of my way to avoid conflict where ever it may be found, I don't run where the chance of trespass of me or dog is high, don't drop on top of other hunters, and try to gracefully end any conflicts that may occur, as inevitably when you run dogs they will. I see the day if we are not careful we may not be able to run dogs, or be so regulated that it would not be any fun, face it we are a minority and would not be missed if we just went away, be it on our own or forced out."

Kudos to you my friend! You and I are on the same page with that. It is NOT being politically correct. It's called being an honorable and responsible sportsman that is respectful of landowners, other sportsmen and the law. That's a badge I'll join you in wearing until the end.

I love having a video camera to record my hounds and hunts but those who have no governance of what they throw up on social media unknowingly aid and abet the anti's with unneeded ammunition to fight with. Those who insist on posting distasteful video footage will be the first in the line of whiners when the day comes their privileges are revoked. Hunting and free casting of hounds is NOT a right but rather a privilege which can be revoked at the will of the people in any state in the union.
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