Difficulties with a breeder

[Boomer]

That is what happend when you mess around with people who claims they breed for show. You should try buying puppy from a true hunter.

This is shameful. I've seen dozens and dozens of posts over the years on this board about so-and-so getting a rotten deal on a beagle he bought from a hunter. Nobody ever said, "That's what happens when you go to a hunter to buy a puppy!" and condemns the whole lot of hunters. But one poster has a bad experience with a show breeder, and it's lights-out on all show breeders? There are plenty of bad apples on both sides.

And not that I'm doubting anything that show dog is saying, but there are two sides to every story.

[warddog]

Carolyn, you could scratch my last post as crew chief said but for me it would be a matter of principle and not a matter of money. At this stage of the game you are out the money [and the dog] anyway with NO guarantee of recouping any of it. If you would prevail in a court of law you could be reimbursed for your expenses, aggravation and then the posting of the trial details could very possibly save another poor sole from going through this type of incident with THIS so called breeder. I find this quote of Martin Luther King quite fitting to the principles I try to keep, "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter". Nuff said!

[crewchf]

Warddog,, didn't mean your post !!! Meant HERS!!!! She can call the guy whatever she wants once she gets the check in her hand!!!!!!!!!!!

Crew Chief

[HatterasBob]

Boomer,
There are allot of Breeders/dog dealers hocking their wares on the internet. They receive free advertizing via the internet. It seems only fitting that if someone feels that they have been shafted via the internet then they should be able to complain via the internet. I for one read these accounts and understand there are 2 sides to ever story, but if you are selling dogs using the internet then you had better make every attempt at keeping your customers happy, otherwise everyone will hear about it and that is a good thing. And that's the way it should be. Form your own conclusions about the dog seller. Think of this board as the Better Business Bureau of the internet.

[Honey Pot Hounds]

I am pretty certain that the seller of the puppy in question does not have a website. Most of us show Beaglers know her throught the National Beagle Club and have met her at shows. Like has been said at least once already, there are two sides to every story. It sounds like things are being worked out btwn the parties in question and maybe we should all just butt out now, IMHO.

[Boomer]

HatterasBob,

I have no problem with the complaint. I've agreed with/supported many complainers in the past. But I've also seen the other side where there are dissatisfied customers who are bad-mouthing breeders who went above-and-beyond to make a customer happy and where the customer is either partially or fully responsible for the problems the customer is having. I'm just saying there's two sides to every story, and we're only getting one side.

My main problem was that someone was blacklisting ALL show breeders because of this single instance.

[kjohns]

I agree, 2 sides to every story and it seems like in this case the other side probably doesn't have the ability to tell there side. (No website, probably no internet access) So one side gets to blast away and the other has no way of telling there side. It's one of the downfalls to the internet.

I'm not doubting anything said here. Just saying since I don't know either party, I'd have to take it all w/ a grain of salt.

[show dog]

The breader and I have come to an agreement, and the issue has been resolved to my satisfaction.

As some have pointed out in this thread, this has been my side of the story and as boomer points out, that this should not reflect badly on any show breeder.

I would like to apologise to the breeder if this thread has caused harm. It was not my intent to do so. It is likely that, in my haste to relate what I felt was happening, that I wrote misleading sentences, again, not my intent.

Carolyn

[gamekeeper]

Having had show beagles for over 40 years I suspect the breathing problem is a snorting type condition or nasal reflex type thing am I correct?

[Showbeagle]

Hi there. I have been watching this topic with much interest. First of all I know the two parties involved and the situation. I referred Carolyn to the breeder of the puppy since I had nothing available. Slamming someone on the net to me is unethical. Especially since you are hearing only one side. The breeder has tried to help the situation. The breeder tried numerous times to get the puppy back but Carolyn refused. They said they would drive to her house to get it before she spent money on the vet but she told them she would make sure she wasn't home. The dog was seen by vets because of a "snorting issue" but as of yet nothing has proven to be wrong with the dog only opinions have been given. I even tried to e-mail Carolyn about the situation but she never responded to me. Of course they finally got the puppy back and they had to wait for Carolyn's vet report before getting a second opinion from the breeders own vet. Which took well over a week to recieve. Then the breeders vet while, yes hearing a snorting noise at times, couldn't really say it was an obvious health issue since beagles can tend to be noisy at times. i.e. reverse sneezing etc. Carolyn never took the puppy for any vaccines and the puppy was exposed to shows etc. The breeder was negotiating a refund but Carolyn's original demands were unreasonable. she wanted to keep the puppy and get $600 back. Breeder refused of course. They finally came to a decision but hell if it me I wouldn't give her a darn thing after this.

JMHO
Melissa, Ontario

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Okay guys, I am done posting on this topic...what say ya'all? Interested in hopping on over to the Various Beagling Events forum with me?

[warddog]

That's exactly why I said to take it to a court of law. There BOTH parties have an opportunity to present their evidence and the Judge rules on the FACTS of the case as presented by BOTH parties. Yes, with the internet it's easy to get on here and make allegations but you must be willing to walk the walk if your talking the talk. This forum's members is not a jury and our opinions are nothing more than that but an opinion served by a judge is the final remedy to any dispute. I say if you allegate then you must be willing to litigate.

[SilverBullet]

That is what happend when you mess around with people who claims they breed for show. You should try buying puppy from a true hunter.

Beagleboy

There ya go smoking that wacky weed again!!!
Sheesh, I have a two page contract that comes with every puppy I place. It explains, in SIMPLE ENGLISH, who is responsible for what and what is and is not garanteed right up front before my puppies ever leave my doorstep!!! Protects both the breeder (Me) and the new owner.

But you don't understand that a breathing problem wouldn;t happen in the first place in hunting stock! A hound that couldn't breathe would cull itself out and that bad trait wouldn't have the chance to be passed on.
It has to be said. We have our problems in field stock, but show dogs have problems and then some! I *was* looking to breed a dual purpose line w/ blueticks and visited or spoke with many show breeders. One of the top show breeders (in CA) poo pooed shyness in her hounds. One local breeder whose mainly in 13" NEVER had her bitches whelp naturally. Their heads are entirely too blocky than what was ever meant for the breed and the muzzles are shortening. Muzzles are shortening in most top show kennels, and to me, they have dogs that are an exaggeration of the Standard, not a reflection of it.
A major pet peeve of mine is how the short back is taken to the extreme, and how the feet are becoming mere stubs that stick out of the leg to achieve a perfect cat food instead of a "hare foot". The original purpose of a cat foot is for balance and endurance, and my hounds with FEET have just that. My long backed bitch with feet and a long muzzle has fun for hours upon hours in severe weather conditions and managed to not even get sore the next day. So what is better for a hound? To be bred for conformation or to be bred for their true purpose?
I'm sorry, I just need to vent! You can utilize the OFA all you want, but my best hound out of hundreds of years of hunting dogs has better hips and patellas than your average show Beagle because liek the breathing problems, those weaker dogs who couldn't hunt are naturally culled. We don't need contracts because our dogs aren't dropping dead in the whelping box, they have strong hips, good lungs and I NEVER herd of a field bred hound w/ breathing problems. You know, I have a friend whose 11" bitch just whelped a litter out of a 13 1/2" male and had an easy delivery because her pups had normal sized heads. I swear some show breeders are trying to make this breed into a miniature molosser breed, hence the thick bone and breathing problems that come with too short a muzzle.
Don't take this the wrong way but this subject is a sore spot for me.

[SilverBullet]

I have some that snort in the field. Doesn't cause them any problems except sounds like a hog in the brush, lol.

LOL! Snorthing in the field is natural ... its a happy Beagle sound
I think the OP means her Beagle is snorting the way a Pug would, because the short face makes it harder to breathe.

[blackdirt beagles]

thats a heck of a post SILVER BULLET... i think i agree 100%. sure does make you think.