Difficulties with a breeder

[S.R.Patch]

Does give meaning to the saying, "form follows function"...

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Hi Silver Bullet,
I certainly agree with you that there are SOME people breeding Beagles for show that are breeding the "Beagle" out of Beagles.
I started out with horses so I well remember the saying "No Foot No Horse." I have seen the stubs of feet you speak of...not often, but occasionally. My Beagles absolutley do not have feet like that! My Beagles have beautiful feet, strong, shapely with hard pads from running my land every day. Feet big enough to support well built Beagles that have BONE.
I also will not use dogs that have those big blocky Labrador Retriever style heads..or heads where the eyes are so far apart that the "Beagle" looks more like a PitBull. So at least as far as I am concerned as a show Beagle breeder you don't have to worry about the complete loss of a houndy head in the show ring.
Here are pictures of the two puppies I kept from Honeys litter of four. As you can see they are not blocky headed Pitbulls with little china doll feet OH, and they were FREEWHELPED by a MAIDEN miss Honey...and the boy pup was born first, breech, and weighed 11.5 oz at birth!!!!!
I also know several other show Beagle breeders who have similar goals in their breeding programs so please don't lump all of us show breeders in one bad category.

Brady..dog..12 weeks

Laurie..bitch..

Lauries face 12 weeks


I could not be happier with how my show prospect puppies have turned out so far and I think that the true Beagler judges will recognise them in the ring (if my pups behave their bad selves!).
Either way, I certainly am not going to change my breeding goals just to accomodate the latest current "trends" in Beagles.....

[samlyn0001]

Very nice looking pups you have there! Just gorgeous! Must have something to do with the expert grooming LOL.!

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Very nice looking pups you have there! Just gorgeous! Must have something to do with the expert grooming LOL.!

And how is that furry Beagle of yours ????? Gawd, we had to groom my husbands darn 13 yr.old female (a real b**ch) cat yesterday! Talk about hair flying and SCARY!

[Boomer]

Silverbullet,

But you don't understand that a breathing problem wouldn;t happen in the first place in hunting stock! A hound that couldn't breathe would cull itself out and that bad trait wouldn't have the chance to be passed on.

How could a field hound cull itself out if it wouldn't happen in the first place? It sounds like this show-bred one is being culled-out, anyhow. You know as well as I do that there are plenty of field hounds out there with genetic problems, and they came from problematic hounds that were not culled. There are also field hounds that should be culled who are being bred. Even the best and most thorough breeders produce some culls. We know that this one show breeder has produced a beagle that may or may not have a breathing problem that would impair its ability in the field. That alone should not reflect on all show breeders, especially if it turns-out this dog is a cull.

One of the top show breeders (in CA) poo pooed shyness in her hounds.

I've seen plenty of shy hounds out of hunting stock, too. I've seen a few shy show beagles, and they didn't have success in the ring because of it (or never made it) and were not bred. And shyness can have a lot to do with socialization and upbringing, too, not just genetics.

One local breeder whose mainly in 13" NEVER had her bitches whelp naturally.

By choice or necessity?

and how the feet are becoming mere stubs that stick out of the leg to achieve a perfect cat food instead of a "hare foot"

I've got a show bred bitch who came to us as a young adult who I sometimes call "bigfoot." My wife and I thought her feet were huge. We took some pictures side-by-side with our field hounds and sent them to her breeder, thinking she'd get a laugh out of how big her feet were. Instead, she sent us old photos of the bitch when she had her along with photos of some of her other dogs, showing that these feet were normal in her stock, and as she said, in the ring in general.

I know a breeder who will not breed a dog who has had cherry-eye, will not breed a dog whose OFA'd excellent because she doesn't think the dog moves right, will not breed a dog that is shy (even if it's just around men in hats), etc.

There are people on both sides doing things right, and there are people on both sides doing things wrong. And then there's the people on the 3rd side who just breed to breed and sell and who do most everything wrong. IMHO, most of the beagles who are bred in any given year come from breeders who are not doing it "the right way," unfortunately.

Maybe someday it will all get sorted-out, but until then, each person is going to do what they think is "right," and that will not be perceived the same way by everyone.

[TC]

Nice post boomer And I agree With you!!!!
I have seen more Bad Bites, Crooked legs, Pigion breasts ECT in Field hounds than I have seen in Show Dogs!!!
I to agree with the Fact that Some Show breeders are breeding to the fancy or what is winning in the ring at that time BUT I also See a lot of the Field Folk Breeding to what is Winning in the field at that time with very little reguard to conformation! being More interested in the name alone!!!

Do THE RESEARCH and CULL when needed there are intirely to many people breeding for just name and recognition alone disreguarding What may happen.
After all aint it supposed to be about the Dogs!!!
We have seen the Worst in BOTH arenas!
As was said there are good and bad in both.....
Why must there be this division between Field and Show Are thier 2 seperate breeds of beagle???
This seems to be what it is getting back to Unless We can Come together this is what we will end up with.
AND YES we have caught it from both sides hearing from more than one judge in the show ring This Dog is to muscled up, having one not place because it has scratches on its ears or nose From Running nevermind that it has the proper Conformation!!!
Or From the Field Judges That dog is to pretty to run in the briars seems funny how at the end of the day They are still on the ground!!!!
This Lumping One again the other is gettin Pretty OLD
I will put one of my Pretty Hounds On the Ground any day BECAUSE that is what they were bread to do!!!!!!!

[Juniorhandler]

I know both parties of this situation, the breeder has done everything possible to try and keep Carolyn happy. They gave her advice when she asked for it but she chose to ignore it. She never gave the puppy its shots and took her to dog shows. The breeder has tried everything they can to make this situation better but something else seems to go wrong. The breeder had no idea that Carolyn had been talking about them like this behind their backs. I know the lines behind this pup and all they do is snort. My juniors dog snorts on the table while the judge examines her, to me if i didn't hear any of my dogs snort i would be worried. The dog was returned to the breeder and examined by the breeders vet, the vet said nothing was wrong. The pup was then taken to a second vet and that vet also said that nothing was wrong. The pup does not have conginetal defects, I have seen the pup and heard the snort that it makes. Its just a gorgeous beagle puppy that breaths loudly.

[HatterasBob]

I use to have a little bitch that sounded like a vacumn cleaner in the field. Man I wish I had her now, she was my once in a life time hound.

[gamekeeper]

As many show beagles have this condition as don't if you put your fingers over the nose for a few seconds it will stop.We have had them that lived 16 yrs. and never any further problems just an anoyance especially in the ring.