Breeding for Nose.

[Rabbithoundjb]

I agree with Mr. Trull, it's all about brains and hunt. There is a lot of good points being identified in this topic. I enjoy the various opinions voiced in these forums.

[Hatfield]

I watched a special on the discovery channel about bomb dogs used in the middle east and some of the techniques used to select and train them. They stated a coralation between size of the snout and the ability to use it size = number of sensors. They also carried a bottle of water so the dogs could drink on intervals. It was so dry there their noses would dry out and be less effective.

I noticed that the drier the day the harder it is to run ol' buggs.

[Lone Pine Beagles]

Yes, you can breed nose into a line of beagles. But you WILL get babblers.

Mybeagles, I ran in Lewiston saturday and it was butt cold! We ran all day and only cirlcled one rabbit to the gun! It was very tough.
Rambo did not cold trail because it was minus zero! But you take a beautiful spring day and he might.

I think a hounds' brain and nose work together. When enough scent is gathered...the hound barks. An old hound will pop off sooner because he/she has found that they CAN produce rabbits by cold trailing to a sitting bunny. (Positive Reinforcement)

I've seen way too many tight mouthed dogs jump a rabbit and sight chase it 50 yds, break down and completely lose the line.

I will tolerate a little babble babble for a good steady race.

Now back to the question.... Can nose be bred into a line.
Yes, but you've got to weigh the strengths of each parent. I've crossed big nose to big nose and got extreme babblers that just needed more ground time to figure out how to use their gift. Rabbit hunters love them, i personally do not want a pack of babblers!
I have found success crossing a slightly above average nose female to a big nosed male. The pups seem to be just what i want. Bark and jump within 2 minutes or less.

For the weak nosed females, it might take two consecutive crosses of big nose to find a litter of good snow nosed hounds?

Basically it's hard to get hounds that will run perfect EVERYDAY. It seems like every line of beagle is bred for a certain task. (snow, sod, pens, etc)

Overall if a guy wants huge nose then you WILL get some extra mouth. If you like tight honest mouth, go rent some movies while the rest of us are outdoors running in the snow! j/k

Lone Pine Beagles

[mybeagles]

Andy, I understand it to be exactly like you stated. There are some on this board that suggest otherwise, believing that brains and mouth are linked. I disagree but must here the logic before I rule it out completely.

Im inclined to have 2 cold nosed dogs that can be run in different packs on sod and perhaps run together on days like today.

I went yesterday for 6 hours, jumped 5-6, and never circled one. Overcompetiveness didnt seem to be the issue, dogs stayed in check, just simply couldnt smell it.

Id be interested in a pup out of Rambo, let me know when you have some on the ground!

[NorWester]

Andy, I understand it to be exactly like you stated. There are some on this board that suggest otherwise, believing that brains and mouth are linked. I disagree but must here the logic before I rule it out completely.

Im inclined to have 2 cold nosed dogs that can be run in different packs on sod and perhaps run together on days like today.

I went yesterday for 6 hours, jumped 5-6, and never circled one. Overcompetiveness didnt seem to be the issue, dogs stayed in check, just simply couldnt smell it.

Id be interested in a pup out of Rambo, let me know when you have some on the ground!

I'm in complete agreement for the most part (if that makes sense) I hear this brains thing all time and thats just a cop out and I dont think ability or lack thereof are connected. If you guys out there think a hound has no brains because he opens when he can run a rabbit then what do you call a hound that won't open till his nose is up the rabbits ass? A hound opens when there is enough scent to trigger his vocal response, he can't possibly KNOW if the track is runnable until he runs it. To say he has "brains" enough to know the difference is silly. If he could I would call that being psychic not being smart and I sure dont want any hound I own to be making those kind of decisions. If he can smell the track he sure better be trying to run it in my opinion.

[BradWV]

BRAVO!

[NorWester]

Mybeagles, I do take offense to what you said. I live in Oklahoma and I do know what a phenominal nose is. In 2005 and 2006 we had to run in drought conditions. It was so dry that all of our sloughs were dry and large farm ponds were going dry and the ranchers were having to haul water to their livestock.

Everyone that runs beagles for any length of time will have adverse conditions at some point and see if they have have a dog with a huge nose and the brains to use it. I do agree with the other guys that say it takes brains to use the nose.

I can agree with that, but sure everyone will encounter tough conditions at some point if they run enough. We're not talking about one or two days a year here however, we're talking about the majority of the entire season. At least thats how it is for me. But you're point about dryness is well taken and I think hot and dry and cold and dry are just about in the same class. If a hound can run a jack rabbit in the hot dry desert of New Mexico or Arizona I'm bettin with some practice he can run in cold dry snow too. It all boils down to what folks call or consider tough running. The Michigan guys think they have it rough, the fellows along the eastern sea board think its tough running there too as do the crew in southern Ontario or even in Ohio. It's all relative. If you want REAL tough.......come on up and run with me Then you'll know tough conditions.

[mybeagles]

NorWester, much agreed!! Michigan is not the worst by far....the farther north you go the tougher it gets.

I do think dry is seperate factor to consider. To say dry compares to exteme heat or cold is another thing.....I have had awful good running on days that were extremely dry.....A better comparison to me is cold vs hot....minus 10 and below or 95 and above.....not to many guys run in 100 degree weather as its dangerous for dog.....dogs seem to enjoy cold and snow running though.

Purpose of post was how to produce big nosed dogs.....Sorry to all offended, didnt mean to suggest southerners dont have tough conditions...Usually when this subject gets brought up, 10 guys come on and say they have a dog that can run every time out, but have never been on snow.....didnt want post to go that way.

[sgc]

I read recently on one of the other sites, where a hunter claimed that the advice he had gotten from an old time beagler he respected, was that; "most all dogs have the same nose power, but it was that some dogs would just open on less scent than others". He also claimed that this fact has helped him in his breeding program. What do you guys think about this?

[mybeagles]

I cant agree because I witnessed my dogs yesterday trying very hard to run a rabbit but could not. I do know there are dogs that could have run.

I do believe there is a difference in excitability between dogs, some dogs wont bark even though its obvious by body language they are getting scent.

[Hatfield]

In my oppinion a hound that has a runnable track should give mouth to alert its pack mates that the chase is on. A hound that gives false alarms has no place in my pack. If a hound can move the track it should give voice, weather or not the quarry has been recently flushed or not is a non-issue. Just because they can smell where a rabbit sat yesterday to give mouth is lack of BRAINS Or quite possibly lack of experience If you like or can put up with extra mouth in order run in 20 below conditions, hey do what you gotta do. I consider babbling and back tracking a fault and will tolerate very little of either.

Can you breed for nose? One thing for sure if they don't have the gene for a big nose in their background it can't come back out. So to answer you question in my oppinion. Yes. In order to have a big nose you must breed for it.

[mybeagles]

Hatfield, if you lived up north you wouldnt do much running during the winter months. If you wouldnt allow a dog to ever bark out of place, its doubtfull your hounds would have the nose to handle the wintery conditions.

Ive always believed if a dog gets scent it should bark.....they dont always know if they will get a jump, but they have to try.

[Hatfield]

I just got a bitch back from MI ran hare on snow and did just fine. I had her bred and the guy that had the Stud dog was nice enough to keep her until he found someone coming my way. While she was there he ran her and even hunted over her(after asking ofcourse)She has very little extra mouth IMO. Nothings perfect ! Not even me

[NorWester]

In Hatfields defense (not that he needs any) if I was in Kentucky I wouldnt tolerate cold tracking or any form of backtracking either.......why would I? That being said, like Mybeagles wrote, if Hatfield was running up this way he would sure change his opinion pretty quick. Mybeagles, in reference to the hot/cold thing I think you're missing the key point. DRYNESS. I've noticed here that not all temperatures are created equal, so to speak. -20 outiside with fresh snow and some humidity in the air.........and we can possibly run a hare. -20 with no humidity and we're basically wasting our time. In fact Ive been out on -6 days with no humidity on old, sand like, tracked up snow and the dogs couldnt do a darn thing. It's the humidity at ground level and in the air that is the most important factor in detecting scent in my opinion. Thats why I brought up the hot, dry desert comparison.....the hot is not the issue, its the dryness. Thats why some of the best hounds in the world (nose power wise) are big game hounds that hunt these areas. DRY ground hunting for lions or bobcats requires a super nose, probably the same quality we need for running in the cold snow or dry cold snow depending on where you are. I think that if you were having awful good days running when its dry out then it probably wasnt as dry as you thought. Not to single you out but some folks seem to confuse the issue of tough conditions all the time. Just because it may APPEAR tough to us (the bystander) doesnt mean it is for the hounds. Ive been out in miserable, windy, rainy, cold nasty weather ..........horrible conditions right? Nope, the hounds ran just fine ............so how bad could it be? Ive also been out like I wrote on -6 days, not a cloud in the sky, very slight breeze just overall pleasant winter weather one would believe. Hounds couldnt catch a cold much less run a track more than a 100 yards. Humidity in the air and at ground level, the single most important factor for a hound to detect scent. BELIEVE IT!

[Greg H]

I agree 100 %. Dry conditions of any kind are the toughest for scenting hounds. An old timer once explained it as "blowing up" in their nose. I don't know what that means for sure but I took it to mean the scent had nothing to stick to therefore the hound couldn't register it as scent.