Big nose? Cold trailing?

[bluerunner43]

i love running with cold nosed dogs IMO they are better jump dogs and produce more rabbits than others. it may take them awhile to get it up but that is what i like to watch, i want to see the determination of the dog to find a rabbit that they dont have a hot scent of. i have seen cold nosed dogs spend twenty minutes in a brush pile working old scent before they push the rabbit out, while other dogs just run by the pile. i also believe that they can run on days that other dogs cant. i am out there to hear the dogs run as long as they are barking on a rabbit i dont care. that is just my opinion

[da ridgetop]

the key to this question in my opinion is rabbits produced if they continually bark and never produce theirs a problem but if a dog produces 90% of the time then theirs not that much of a problem heard a guy say once that cold nose dogs had to much nose personally never seen a beagle with to much nose not enough brains - yes - to much nose - no how many times in the spring and summer have you seen dogs lock on and roll then you weight yourself down with a shotgun and you cant bust any primers? = got to have nose power and brains is a huge plus Donald

[BCBeagles]

I agree 100 percent on that. There is a small percentage they may not produce, I am not gonna deny that. On a real frosty day I have seen the one
pop off on cold trails 3-4 times in 3-4 hours. I also saw her jump 2 rabbits out of those early pop offs. I guess I am just looking for some reassurance
that these are dogs other guys would consider breeding if they did there homework on the stud, and the littermates of the female in question. Thanks
to all so far again.

[mobeagle]

??? I dont understand the delima? You want to breed a hound that has a good nose comes out with the checks and has the ability to cold trail and you want to know if you should breed her? I wouldnt own a hound like that but my kids are looking for a pet though if you're wantin rid of her.

On a serious note she sounds like the perfect hound if you're a hunter........


Of course big nose hounds bark earlier but I wouldnt want anything less than a big nosed hound I prefer to hunt when I want not when the conditions say I can.

[mobeagle]

i love running with cold nosed dogs IMO they are better jump dogs and produce more rabbits than others. it may take them awhile to get it up but that is what i like to watch, i want to see the determination of the dog to find a rabbit that they dont have a hot scent of. i have seen cold nosed dogs spend twenty minutes in a brush pile working old scent before they push the rabbit out, while other dogs just run by the pile. i also believe that they can run on days that other dogs cant. i am out there to hear the dogs run as long as they are barking on a rabbit i dont care. that is just my opinion

Couldnt agree more. Two weeks ago coyote hunting we had a race going and spotted a stray coyote marked the spot and went on. Two hours later I took one of our cold nosed jump dogs over to it and he stuck his nose to the ground and opened right away. Took him 20 minutes to jump him but barked the entire way on the cold track. That same dog is the finest jump dog for any type of hound hunting I've ever laid my eyes on. You send him in and I GAURANTEE he will find his game wether its a cold track or a hot jump. Cold nosed dogs IMO are usually the best jump dogs.

[ohlinger]

i love running with cold nosed dogs IMO they are better jump dogs and produce more rabbits than others. it may take them awhile to get it up but that is what i like to watch, i want to see the determination of the dog to find a rabbit that they dont have a hot scent of. i have seen cold nosed dogs spend twenty minutes in a brush pile working old scent before they push the rabbit out, while other dogs just run by the pile. i also believe that they can run on days that other dogs cant. i am out there to hear the dogs run as long as they are barking on a rabbit i dont care. that is just my opinion

lol..i'm not knocking a big nosed hound that can jump a rabbit with it's nose here, but my question is why wait around on a cold nosed dog to jump a rabbit (if it actualy jumps it) when you could get a brush buster dog that will go just go in the brush piles and jump the rabbits out ? Seems to me like that could save alot of gripes, and heart ache waitin on "ol Blue" to work it out on those single digit mornings mean while his relentless barking has the other dogs constantly checking him ergo they are'nt getting there butts in the briars where they and "ol Blue" should be in the first place. ...If ya like listenin to the dogs work a rabbit get some brush dogs and listen to a chase...nothin wrong with a dog that can get one going on a hard day, but....why wait on one dog when you have a whole pack on the ground ? As long as you know the difference between a babbler and an honest cold nosed dog then more power to ya, but not enough people can admit they're dog has too much mouth and not enough brains. I love being in a trial watching a guy suck minus b/c his dog is "cold Nosed"
A good jump dog IMO has a good nose, but also goes where rabbits are "IN THE BRUSH" not hopping down the paths. A big nose dog can run in conditions that other dogs can't. It will be the dog that keeps it going on tough days that rest of the pack is really sucking. Those are not the same as you're cold trailing dogs. Give me a big nose dog any day of the week, I don't want a 50/50 cold trailer that you just hope he actualy has one to get it going.

[TC]

Hey Shawn Bring those Brush Busters of yours on I DARE YA I Will put 3 of my BIG NOSED Dogs down against your Brush busters Anytime..lets See how about Runner,Lugnut,oh and i will throw ol Big boy Down with ya to Clear the lanes in the brush for ya he is gettin up there at over 8 years but will get ya a rabbit race going Or heck i will throw the girls down Cammie, lucy, and Trixie hows that two big nosed hounds and a hot nosed hound....none of them 3 girls much over 13" and can Guarantee ya they aint sittin in the lanes Boo hooin.
Lets have us a Race.......You have run with these Dogs before you think they aint gettin in the brush????
Shoot I will Call Max and have him bring Dirt back over Ol Dirt Got a lot of his daddys big nose....but I will say if he barks you got ya a rabbit.....how about this Most rabbits Shot in 3 hours over 3 dogs..
I will betcha if Nuthin Else we have a Dang Good time

[Dave Swiger]

I have posted on this before. Years ago trialers bred dogs down til they wouldn't run, but walk a track. Now we are breeding for the hotter nose...are we heading down the same path. I'm not a fan of the boo who cold trailor, but there should be a happy medium.

Dave Swiger

[BCBeagles]

She will hunt and she does not stand in the paths much. She, this one in particular, will pop off occasionally, but not excessive when ran up well. The thing I see is
in most of these adds for pups and for hounds is "not extra mouth". Is that really the case?? Cause she has some occasionally and I can live with it cause she does a
lot of other things right. Am I as a breeder, if I sell a puppy, being irresponsible by trying to improve off of a hound with a fault like this, again not an excessive fault,
but a fault?? I feel confident that her nose will jump her more rabbits and I know she isn't afraid of briars when she gets a whiff of one on the outside of those briars or
standing in the middle of them. I see now when looking at all the posts the consensus for me as a hunter is her, but I want the quality of beagle I cut loose to be high.
And if I sell a pup I want that quality to be just as high. I don't want to hurt myself by breeding hounds most think are not worthy of that. I just get discouraged some times
by reading all these posts of "will not open till a rabbits up", "at all times". I am not wanting to start an arguement over what style of hound trialers or hunters like. I, personally,
as well as all on here like a "rabbit dog!" and that is what I strive to hunt and breed for. I just want to be moving in a positive direction for what I like and enjoy selling a pup
or two along the way to meet others looking for the same things I like. I don't want to be "that guy" who sells those mediocre hounds cause he just bred everything he could get
his hands on. Thanks to all for the great posts. Maybe just thinking a little too hard on this issue.

[eddywilliams]

Ss Sanford ss J once again our training session begins .You like big nosed hounds ,great ,but dont say there arent any good nosed hounds or big nosed that have an honest mouth because you obviously havent been around many dogs.I will extend my invitation for you to comedown and run in the frost or frozen ground and bring your big nosed hounds that popoff we will see how many get produced and by who .All in fun of course .You remember my old Yogi dog ? He could flat pound a rabbit ,hunting machine ,barked every breath on track and fired out of the check, BIG NOSE,a pretty impressive hound ,EXCEPT HE WOULD POP OFF and a lot of times wouldnt produce .He was your line sorta (turbo )Just not my type .Dogs arent perfect they do dumb things sometimes that we swear they wouldnt, but on a consistent basis I like to feel that when one barks its up ,but thats me to each his own preference.

[mdbeagler]

Jim I wouldn't hesitate to breed a dog like you described at all. If they can smell him I want them to let me know.
What good is a dog that trails a rabbit 50 yards without saying anything? I have dogs that can jump and run
rabbits when others can't. Of course they can and do get in trouble in trials sometimes, but I have also seen
them shine in trials and run rabbits when others couldn't. I am a rabbit hunter first, and a dog that doesn't
have a strong nose doesn't get enough scent to trail the rabbit up until jumped and have to move on and try finding
hot scent. If rabbits haven't been moving much, you are not going to jump much. People who have dogs like that
stay home on tough scenting days or don't get much accomplished. If I lived in the south were the conditions don't
get real bad; I would want a dog with a tighter mouth. I have yet to see a dog with a so called big nose that didn't
open before the rabbit is up. What is the point of having it if you don't use it? I can tell by the change in voice and pace
when the rabbit is jumped. I would say my dogs that have what I would call a superior nose produce at least 90% on average.
If they just constantly barked and didn't produce, they wouldn't last long. If the result is a rabbit that a weaker nosed
dog would have never been able to run; makes me appreciate that dog that much more.
I am more concerned with the dogs that have more foot than brains, and are constantly over shooting the track stealing the track from the true jump dog just to get out front. Most dogs’ like that on bad scenting days just blow the track up because they can’t handle the track on those types of days.
There is a difference between having a good nose and just being plain mouthy.

[TC]

She will hunt and she does not stand in the paths much. She, this one in particular, will pop off occasionally, but not excessive when ran up well. The thing I see is
in most of these adds for pups and for hounds is "not extra mouth". Is that really the case?? Cause she has some occasionally and I can live with it cause she does a
lot of other things right. Am I as a breeder, if I sell a puppy, being irresponsible by trying to improve off of a hound with a fault like this, again not an excessive fault,
but a fault?? I feel confident that her nose will jump her more rabbits and I know she isn't afraid of briars when she gets a whiff of one on the outside of those briars or
standing in the middle of them. I see now when looking at all the posts the consensus for me as a hunter is her, but I want the quality of beagle I cut loose to be high.
And if I sell a pup I want that quality to be just as high. I don't want to hurt myself by breeding hounds most think are notworthy of that. I just get discouraged some times
by reading all these posts of "will not open till a rabbits up", "at all times". I am not wanting to start an arguement over whatstyle of hound trialers or hunters like. I, personally,
as well as all on here like a "rabbit dog!" and that is what I strive to hunt and breed for. I just want to be moving in a positive direction for what I like and enjoy selling a pup
or two along the way to meet others looking for the same things I like. I don't want to be "that guy" who sells those mediocre hounds cause he just bred everything he could get
his hands on. Thanks to all for the great posts. Maybe just thinking a little too hard on this issue.

The Thing i want to know is WHO told you that This was a FAULT??? And HOW so?

The AKC Standard for field trials states
section 5-B page 28

Proper use of voice is proclaiming all finds and
denoting all forward progress by giving tongue, yet
keeping silent when not in contact with scent that can
be progressed. True tongue is honest claiming that
running mates can depend on.


Under Rule 5-C Faulty Actions . page 30

Running mute is failure to give tongue when making
progress on the line.
Tightness of mouth is a failure to give sufficient
tongue when making progress. This will often be evidenced
by the hound tightening up when pressed or
when going away from a check.

Even in NKC/ARHA the Cold or Big nosed hound is given the benifit of the doubt
Rule IX section C

8. After a hound has opened (3 or more barks) and the judge strikes that hound, the judge shall give that hound 4 minutes to produce the rabbit. If no rabbit has been produced at the end of the 4 minutes, the judge shall announce time has expired and shall ask the handlers to move their hounds to another area. He/She may or may not request the handlers to leash their hounds. In this case the hound that was struck receives a minus 10 points.
Just because Some may say it is a Fault Dont mean it is So......It is MHO if Folks keep breeding these Hot Nosed caint run a rabbit till it sees it type Dogs we aint gonna have nuthin left to hunt with....

[mike crabtree]

I have a big nosed male here , he will open early, and has minused out of 1 trial. When it is time to go hunting he is my best.

He will show you rabbits that the big nosed perfect mouthed dogs cant even bark on.

[BradWV]

Jim,

My big questions is....is that dog for sale? Sale her to me and I WILL breed her to a big nosed male and if they produce in like, I will be a happy man!

I started a post a few weeks back about the same comments that you made about what people are putting in their adds about pups and dogs for sale. They are not the kind of dogs that I prefer, which has been causing me trouble of finding a dog.

Also, I m with TC, why is it a fault? I understand that in some registeries a dogs will take a minus score for this, but to me if they can use that big ole nose, I don't care if they get minused in an alotted time.

I think a lot of what type/style of dog depends on what you run and how plentiful the game is? I personally mostly hunt hare here in WV. They are not plentiful and the running conditions where you normally find them are not usually the best....thus, I like a big nose dog that will open on a cold track and can work it to a jump and can run it in most conditions. I would hate to spend lots of time in a thicket that holds no hare thinking that there may be one there because I have dogs that won't bark until the rabbit is up. This is just my personal preference, nothing more, nothing less.

Brad

[stavemillbeagles]

i love a big nosed dog as long as they are getting the rabbit up i have a couple big nosed dogs they will open early sometimes but they will produce the rabbit usually with in 5 minutes now if im running in a little pack hunt yes they will get a minus for a non produce because it wasnt produced within the 3 minutes. now if they are cold trailing for 15 or 20 minutes before they get the rabbit up thats way to much mouth for me and i wont put up with that.