would you breed to a faulty dog....

[Guest]

I understand what you are saying now. I agree

[MasonsBeagles]

all i can say is show me any dog anywhere that does not have a fault....

[blackdirt beagles]

yep they all got faults, im talkin about the ones i listed in the first post.

[Guest]

Guess I cant vote officially since I always come in here as guest.But to answer your question I would breed to a dog with a fault. However I wouldnt breed a female with a fault to a male with the same fault.Also I would not breed to a dog with comformation fault .The two major faults you listed I think were trashrunning and shyness.I think both of those can be stopped by conditioning.

J.Murphy

[Alabama John]

Since I believe in breeding Best to Best, and hang the papers I would not breed a faulty female nor to a stud that had a fault other than something like a crooked tail from getting it caught in a truck door.

Shyness and some of the other faults ya'll are talking about, NO WAY!

[ACOMEAU]

Steve C. said it best on another post here last week.

" scientists believe most dogs to carry 30,000 to 45,000 different genes. When you consider the billions of different combinations that could result from the crossing of two individuals, it's a wonder we ever get what we're looking for. All you can do is a lot of homework and play the odds"

So my question would be this, is the dog the only one in the line with the fault, or does the line consistently produce that fault?

If the question to the first one is yes, then yes I would breed to it, if its family tree was full of great dogs. If the answer to question number two is yes then my answer is no.

Joe West has also said that the opurtunity and enviroment can play a large role in the dogs developement. So the fault may have been handler induced.

[Chris]

I have a female that will hunt all day and night if you let her and she has good tongue,she is not going to mouth off line or skirt or anyother undesirable things BUT she is very shy, afraid of stang dogs, people any thing scares her.
now you would get rid of her???

In a heartbeat.

Some things I can live with. No dog is faultless. Depends on the fault. Trash-running, I'd consider if it weren't perpetual. Shyness, no way. That's one of the things that I doubt can ever be totally overcome. Shyness is just about the only thing that I can think of where I'd say unequivocally no.

[blackfly]

blackdirt there would be no chance in the world that i would ever breed any dog that posses traits such as shyness no hunt or bad confermation to bad alot of people do just for the money.its poisining the breed

[stanimals2]

I think the guest comments are a perfect example of what happens when we breed inferior dogs. Should have culled him at birth

[bluehound1]

It is true that trash running and shyness are bad flaws in alot of hounds and personally I can't stand either of them. I had a dog that was real shy. It took me about 2 weeks after I got him to take him to the feild even then, sometimes he would run from me as soon as I turned him out. Well needless to say I culled him. He was also gun shy. As for me these are not the only bad flaws a dog can have. To me a dog that hunts hard and busts the brush but can't run a line worth a crap is a major flaw. Also a dog that runs a good solid line with good check work but won't get in the brush and jump the rabbits is also a major flaw. This is my opinon. I have already voted on this topic and was wondering if these flaws I mentioned are big flaws to you guys?

[AlabamaSwamper]

I have a female that will hunt all day and night if you let her and she has good tongue,she is not going to mouth off line or skirt or anyother undesirable things BUT she is very shy, afraid of stang dogs, people any thing scares her.
now you would get rid of her???

In a heartbeat.

Some things I can live with. No dog is faultless. Depends on the fault. Trash-running, I'd consider if it weren't perpetual. Shyness, no way. That's one of the things that I doubt can ever be totally overcome. Shyness is just about the only thing that I can think of where I'd say unequivocally no.

I agree with Chris here. However, if the dog was a one man dog, then that wouldn't bother me. As long as the dog handles for me, that is all that matters.


Blackdirt, pedigrees can be good. It allows one to line breed or give an accurate view of an outcross. However, that is absulutely all that a pedigree does.

You take a faulty dog and breed it because so and so was the sire or grandsire and you are asking for trouble. If you think that the traits of three generations ago are going to show up, well, you are correct. However, so is the traits of the sire you are breeding too and probably 10x and you will always have to deal with that fault.

Take a dog that is naturally shy. I agree that this is genetic is someway. If all dogs for 10 generations wasn't shy due to lucky breeding then some folks would breed to to this dog. However, eventually down the line that trait will show up again, and again and again and again. Sure, you might could breed it out but why fool with all the headache when there are plenty of great dogs out there that aren't shy.

[New York Hillbilly]

I hear the term shy tossed around alot lately. All of my hounds are happy go lucky and well adjusted but they really are MY hounds and are a little hawky around others they do not know. This to me is not the same thing as the type of hound that skirts away from it's owner or sits there 30 feet from you when you need to pick it up and makes you sneek up on it or ambush it. I have had such hounds in the past and these whacko shy types to me are more dangerous to keep than a mean hound because they are unpredictable and are potentialy fear biters. There is only one place for these sorry creatures and that is where they no longer can be a danger to others or to the breed. I must also qualify this by saying that over the years I have only seen a couple that were actually genetic defects and many that were nuts from lack of socializing as pups. These pups are like any other animal including the human animal in that a failure to touch, interact and love when they are young cause a condition of failure to thrive and brings out all kinds of anti social and maladjusted behaviors.
NYH

[snowshoehareguide]

lets say its out of a major line and is an awesome dog that dominates the trials, EXCEPT it has a major flaw such as trash running on ocassion or shyness that passes on in some pups. would you take the chance and breed to this?

brian i never bred a dog that didnt have a fault- never even seen one. only dogs with no faults are long buried... shy is something that is very hard to get rid of... shy females normally will have shy pups... i see it as a MAJOR fault and would never breed one again... trash running is a learned fault... its reflects on trainability of a dog .. i would breed to a trashy dog if he was like i wanted in other ways..if i had a dog that was so trashy i couldnt train him then id might not breed him.. u already know im looking for dogs with nose.. if dog has nose i want ill breed it..ill over look minor faults to get that nose... show me a dog with no faults... lack of nose is most common fault i see in beagles and they are bred like they are worth their weight in gold..im a rabbit hunter not a trialer. two seperate things in my opinion.. more than 90% of all beagles ive seen dont have nose enough .maybe 99% . people are breeding them every day.. last few weeks here - seen very few days dogs could run.. snow is dry. its been cold. lucky to get more than one circle out of a hare here last three weeks... some real faulty dogs i guess. u got a trash runner that can run in conditions ive seen last three weeks ill breed every dog i have to him. pete

[blackdirt beagles]

all dogs have faults of course. some are bigger than others, depends on opinions of course. my post singled out the 2 major faults that i believe a dog can have. i know you have trouble finding enough nose, thats not a problem at all for me and the conditions i run in. when its under 5 degrees here, i stay in. only a handful of days like that a year. 95% of the time it is 12 degrees or warmer here. i do believe to at least some extent trash running is genetic, ive seen a few lines of dogs do this. its hard for me to blame it all on training when these dogs had many different owners and locations. i absolutely wont put up with a dog that will run trash. after a dog is about 1 1/2 old if i cant trust it to be straight, it wont stay here, end of story, no matter how good it otherwise is.

[Steve C.]

I don't want to get caught up in semantics but I'm of the opinion that there are a lot of hounds out there who do not have a fault. To me, the term fault means a repetitive negative trait that either will get you picked up in a trial or result in lost rabbits. Such a fault would be lack of hunt and desire, tonguing without making progress, running the line silent, quitting, leaving checks, serious overrunning, skirting and swinging to gain advantage over packmates, etc. All dogs will make mistakes and all have weaknesses but I don't necessarily call them faults. The other point I'd like to make is that while I'd always prefer to breed to the best individual available, I'd rather breed to the poorest of a great litter than to the best of an otherwise poor litter. I think generally a stud is more apt to produce an average of his own litter.