The trainer or the dog?

[klrconcrete]

Riverbottom, you always seem to have a way of summing things up in a few short sentences!

[Duke]

On other attributes I may have a different answer..... Handling is the responsibility of the trainer. Some dogs as said before learn easier, but handling is learned from the trainer.

[jdmart]

I am going to say both, a dog with no brains will never handle or train to be the best. If a dog never has the time put into it to develop into a hound with the best abilities it won't happen either. It takes both. The person that said a couple of hours a week, you must be joking.

[RunninHard]

I agree on it takes both

[bucks better beagles]

I don't believe both was an option in this thread.

[RunninHard]

and I dont recall you being the OP
Its my opinion and nothing more then that, you have yours I have mine

[Charles Philpot]

I believe its the more the trainer of the dog, it takes ground time and someone with experience and patients that has trained dogs in the past. All dogs are different some learn quicker than others. E-collars is one of the most important things the trainer will learn to use. Garmins are nice also when training a young dog.

[RunninHard]

shock collars are great but what happens when the dog tries to "out run" the collar ? Instead of coming to you they head to the next county

I have a friend that had this happen, what did we do ? Well we got out the 17HMR and set it on 6 power and well......we got the collar back

[Duke]

That is because your friend did not do the very basics of obedeance training. Teach the hound the basics before 12 weeks of age.....come sit stay and down...... adding fetching before 12 weeks shows a very trainable dog. Teach your hound to obey on the lead and introduce the e-collar while on the lead teaching the hound the tone and the shock. Your friend will never have that problem again. There are very few hounds that will not respond to a minimal of training at an early age.

Kicking a hound off the tailgate with a shock collar on for the first time out is not training.

[RunninHard]

LMAO!

[bucks better beagles]

Runnin Hard: Wasn't trying to be the OP. Just trying to get people to make a choice. Of course, it depends on the dog and the trainer, however, as Alabama said, "with all things being equal", which would take precedence. I have always heard that the "cream will come to the top". However, once again, if a good dog is miss handled, it can be ruined. Unnecessary shocking, beating, starving and any number of other bad training habits can easily turn a good dog sour. Prison or abuse will eventually break any man and so it goes with dogs.

[ddetar00]

It is my opinion that it takes both... the best handler in the world cannot fix stupid.
But he can have hounds with the best bidability and if he does not work with them... they will never show their potential.

[gwyoung]

Once you have a dog that is prone to be biddable, then it is 100% trainer afterwards, problem is, not all dogs are prone to biddability, Dogs that are hand shy probably make up the largest segment of this group. I would say 99% of dogs can be taught to handle properly with the proper training, some are easier than others but all in this group can be taught. I also believe that all in this group can be ruined with improper training. Hand shy ,unlike gun shy can and often is bred into hounds , be careful about breeding these hand shy dogs. Some are hand shy due to improper training, when bred, these will not necessarily produce hand shy offspring but the genetically hand shy dog will. Most dogs I see that handle poorly fit into the category of poor training. We have all heard of how hard headed a particular dog is, this is nearly always a training problem. So, to sum it up, If you don't have a hand shy dog , It is the trainer. Also,I trained a dog to come to the sound of a car horn , He got run over!

[Bunnyblaster]

It's gotta be the dog all the way.

[gwyoung]

bunnyblaster, Think, If it is entirely the dog ,then , we have never done anything with a dog in regards to handling that a chimpanzee could not have accomplished, or for that matter the dog could just train it's self. Now! I see where you are going , some dogs are better trainers than others, some can train themselves and some cannot, I can not disprove that , and I don't believe anyone else can, You might have something there after all!