break a dog from opening before the rabbit is up?

[Bellmorekennels]

duckbuster, I have a male that too will open way early, he is about 1 yr old, what I like to do is run solo as much as possible and run with a tight mouthed female, I give him 5 minutes to figure out and if the female doesnt hark in and get going, i tone button him to come back to me and try to get him going in a different area, it has helped him alot, will produce a rabbit 75% of time, and will run on days other dogs can not, so he will stay.
Good luck.

[duckbuster38401]

Ok, I'm gonna try that. I have a place 2 miles for my house that is loaded with rabbits. I'll take her and run her there. Bad thing is my best tattle tail was lost while hunting Saturday on the twra youth hut and we have looked and looked and cannot find her. She was running coming back to us on a circle and just shut up. I have not found her yet. Thanks for the info.

[toldyouso]

Sounds to me like maybe you need to take her to a open field where you know there are no rabbits then the truth will be told. You might be giving her the benifit of the doubt that she does not deserve at least this way you will not keep wasting your time. They all do not make it at least in my world.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Duckbuster
Everyone has their own ideas.I don't believe you will satisfactorily ever change your dog's propensity for cold trailing.I believe this is a geneticaly controlled trait same as nose,foot speed,voice,etc. are.As the saying goes " IT IS WHAT IT IS " and you can try all the suggestions that are offered but I doubt you will see much of a change in her.
When I lived up in the north country and hunted hare we expected [and tolerated ] a certain amount of cold trailing.One because of the snow and temps. and that made it a little harder on the hound to get the hare jumped and lined out . And two because a hare travels through the woods a lot like a deer and often the hound will pick up his line and can follow it a ways before he comes to where he is sitting and jumps him up.
Here in Tn. I don't expect my hounds to boo around before the rabbit is jumped. Sometimes they will give 2-3 barks when they hit scent and the rabbit is squated close and they haven't jumped him up yet and to me that is fine.But, me personally.I can't stand and won't keep a hound that boos around much at all before the rabbit is up and running.When my dogs are barking the rabbit is running,when they hit a check and loose the scent they shut up until they line him out again.
I hate to single out any particular type but you will often see hounds that trial in the slower more conservative type trials that just bark ALL the time.They will open up on scent that they struggle to do anything with and a lot of them NEVER shut up in the check area.
Over the years I've had many opportunities to hunt with guys that have brought a hound like is being discussed.You all go to the woods with half a dozen hounds and turn out and one hound opens right up and the others go and check her and they don't say much or anything.This hound continues to open and trail around for 15-20 minutes like this and the other hounds are now ignoring her and have moved off to find a rabbit to run. The owner invariablly will tell me "she usually will produce a rabbit".Maybe that's true but it is not the kind of hound that I'm going to follow.
Many people think that "cold trailing " means that it takes a LONG time for a hound to work up a track.Not necessarily so! An intelligent hound with a decent nose should determine quickly if the scent he is getting can be turned into a run or not.While working the track he [in my opinion ] should keep his mouth shut ,work it as fast as possible under the conditions and turn it into a run or if that isn't possible to realize that quickly and move on.A smart hound can assess this very quickly.

[Newt]

Shadygrove. You got it right. Cold trailers can ruin a good day hunting cottontails. Especially if it is cold and frosty.

[toldyouso]

Shady is right on i guess that is what i was trying to say you can not and will not fix it. it will only get worse with age.

[rabbitrunner33]

how old is the dog. if she is young she could come out of it. i don't think shocking is the way to go could make more of a problem.

[duckbuster38401]

She is 13 mths old tomorrow

[rabbitrunner33]

she young yet give her solo time she might come around.

[Briarhoppers]

Duck-

What does this hound do in the check area? Is she blowing a hole in the ground and not going anywhere or is she waiting till she has the check solved before opening?

I don't have alot of experience w/ this type of hound, although the first beagle I ever owned was somewhat similar. But, like others have stated, I'd say there is little you can do to train or correct this behavior. It is in her breeding....and while it may change - get a little better or a little worst w/ age, I don't think you can do much about changing what she is "programed" to do.

That being said, some folks look for this trait in their dogs and see it as an asset....others wouldn't keep the dog. One man's junk is another man's treasure. I do know from having beagles for about 12 years and having bird dogs for 10 years before that, that my time in the woods hunting is to valuable to spend w/ dogs that I don't enjoy.

So feed what you like and like what you feed!

-Pete

[cjcocodrie]

At 13 mos I would say that there is still hope - I started my breeding program 30 years ago with hounds that were "loaded with nose" and through generations had to battle an occasional unwanted "cold nose". But I did find that the cure was a steady diet of hot rabbit tracks. The more fresh rabbit scent I could provide for the youngster with the problem of cold trailing the less apt to pursue cold lines they were. Often I kept the culprit on the leash until a rabbit was up and then moved directly to the hot track. Or stomped the area well myself and then insisted we move on when no rabbit got up. If they have any sense at all they will soon prefer the stronger fresh track and this never discouraged their hunting the way a correction might have. Several did give up the cold trailing entirely, others would get bad again when the rabbits were scarce or as someone said on a frosty morning. And there have been times, as you said, that these hounds would produce on days when others couldn't. Try waiting until scent drys a bit to take this hound out and then find a spot where the rabbits are plentiful for your next few hunts. Good Luck and Let us know if you are successful.

[duckbuster38401]

That's my only other thought was to wait till next month when the running gets better and get her on some hot races.

[duckbuster38401]

We went today, when she opened early I bumped her on 2 on the g3 after a few time she stoped doing it as much. She jumped the first rabbit of the day and did a good job after that.

[Laneline]

Gun Hunting is a large part of your solution. Teasing her and giving her a taste of fresh blood, fur and scent of the rabbit. In combination of a lot time on fresh tracks. In time she will eventually only be “turned on” by hot tracks and she will slowly stop opening on cold tracks so much. But she will always be prone to do it, that’s how she is wired. With more running time she will prefer hot tracks and won’t be so excited over cold tracks. Many dogs only do this if they are not run regularly.

Pack dogs do pick up things from each other. I would run her with a larger pack where the dogs refuse to honor her, and would pull her up giving her less time to potter or babble. The down side of this, I wouldn’t let her influence your young dogs, provoking them to giving false mouth. Bad habits catch on quick with young dogs.

I shock dogs for many things, instinctively hunting and pursuing a rabbit is not one of them. That is sending the wrong message to her. I would try to slowly develop her into the way I wanted her, but I wouldn’t break her will. You can influence a dog, but you can’t shock away DNA. But with enough time on hot tracks and running time with the right dogs, hopefully she will work out for you. It just takes time and patience. Good Luck