~~More Coyote Relocation pics~~

[Hare Chaser]

Those are some good sized yotes. Look like what we have here in the east. About how big would you say that one in the first picture was. My guess would be 40-45 lb. range but pictures can be decieving.

[johns03272008]

Smitty nice job man, where are you located? Looks like your having fun and your right about it being addicting the races are are more intense and fun to watch!!!

[bigcfromrbc]

You would think all the farmers would want the coyotes killed out. Help protect their own interest if they have live stock.

[mybeagles]

You would think all the farmers would want the coyotes killed out.

Some farmers have contracted the "liberal gene" or won't stand up to their wife who has it and dont want anything killed. They live in a fish tank and want the world to just be a wildlife scene around them completely misunderstanding predator management.

On the flip side there are hunters that disregard land owners and just accept their dogs will be running across sections. Sometimes through the same property over and over again they have been told to stay off. I would be surprised if coyote hunting with hounds is allowed to continue much longer just like in Europe.... Im sure its stressful for responsible coyote hunters worrying about human conflict every time they cut lose.

I quit coon hunting for that reason. I could be hunting on a 200 acre farm and inevitably a coon would run and tree just outside a mans house that just owns 1 acre. A very awkward encounter would take place and ruin the hunt for me. I think people used to be much more understanding of hound hunters and sort of left them alone but for the reasons above those days are slipping.

[johns03272008]

You would think all the farmers would want the coyotes killed out.

Some farmers have contracted the "liberal gene" or won't stand up to their wife who has it and dont want anything killed. They live in a fish tank and want the world to just be a wildlife scene around them completely misunderstanding predator management.

On the flip side there are hunters that disregard land owners and just accept their dogs will be running across sections. Sometimes through the same property over and over again they have been told to stay off. I would be surprised if coyote hunting with hounds is allowed to continue much longer just like in Europe.... Im sure its stressful for responsible coyote hunters worrying about human conflict every time they cut lose.

I quit coon hunting for that reason. I could be hunting on a 200 acre farm and inevitably a coon would run and tree just outside a mans house that just owns 1 acre. A very awkward encounter would take place and ruin the hunt for me. I think people used to be much more understanding of hound hunters and sort of left them alone but for the reasons above those days are slipping.

Mybeagles you have hit the nail on the head with worrying about human conflict every time I cut loose, for the most part we have land owners wanting us out but with that comes a very watchful eye and if someone does something wrong it can ruin it for the whole group and then we get people that don't like us and always have to know where dogs are just in case they go more bonkers than they already are. It does help public relations that I am the elementary wrestling coach but it doesn't always help.

[warddog]

You would think all the farmers would want the coyotes killed out.

Some farmers have contracted the "liberal gene" or won't stand up to their wife who has it and dont want anything killed. They live in a fish tank and want the world to just be a wildlife scene around them completely misunderstanding predator management.

On the flip side there are hunters that disregard land owners and just accept their dogs will be running across sections. Sometimes through the same property over and over again they have been told to stay off. I would be surprised if coyote hunting with hounds is allowed to continue much longer just like in Europe.... Im sure its stressful for responsible coyote hunters worrying about human conflict every time they cut lose.

I quit coon hunting for that reason. I could be hunting on a 200 acre farm and inevitably a coon would run and tree just outside a mans house that just owns 1 acre. A very awkward encounter would take place and ruin the hunt for me. I think people used to be much more understanding of hound hunters and sort of left them alone but for the reasons above those days are slipping.

That is a big part of why I quit coon hunting as well. When I found out that you have no right to go onto private property to retrieve your dog even with a law enforcement officer be it sheriff or game warden is when I realized it was time to get out. Sorry to say folks but our right to hunt has already been infringed upon unless one can hunt and stay on public property. I don't care if our dogs go onto a half acre of private property without permission that is trespassing and we have no right to venture onto that property to go get them. Never used to ever even think about such a thing when I was a kid but I saw this coming years ago. It will get to the point that if you don't own it, lease it or have permission from many adjoining land owners hunters will be stuck to piling up on public land. OOPs that is already happening right now today as I have seen the best public hunting and or running grounds to the point that you have to draw a number to wait in line to get onto it.

[Crow]

Got one off our lease today. Tried to post a pic but keep getting an error message when I attach it. Anyway one less in the world.

[johns03272008]

Wardog, that is incorrect you have 100% right to go retrieve your hound or hounds from any property as long as you have a valid hunting license and you leave your firearm on property you have permission on, you do not need a DNR officer or sheriff present.

That being said, before I go into a property we don't have permission I will always go knock on the door first to keep public relations in good standing and so far we haven't had a problem but I know the rights as a hound hunter in Indiana.

[SMITTY1233]

My beagles the fear of losing coyote hunting is exactly why I posted that we need to be very understanding of leaving bayup pictures off of public sites. I love the pictures and have no problem with them but it puts a sour persona on a souring sport as it is. We have about 20 square miles of permission to run and then run on State ground up north. We do not ever go anywhere with our boots we don't have permission. I have been doing this about 10 years now and have had one person in that time tell me no. If our dogs get caught in a place where we do not have permission we go to the door and ask do you want us to just retrieve the hounds or do you want us to dispatch the coyote and get hounds. 90% of the time they say shoot the coyote get dogs and please come back and kill them all!!

We had a great weekend this weekend knocking down 5 running the total to 6 for the year. We hunt anywhere from Mid MI to the Far North of the Lower Penn.





In my opinion Bear hunting goes before coyote does!! I'm for all hounding no matter the game...

[warddog]

Wardog, that is incorrect you have 100% right to go retrieve your hound or hounds from any property as long as you have a valid hunting license and you leave your firearm on property you have permission on, you do not need a DNR officer or sheriff present.

That being said, before I go into a property we don't have permission I will always go knock on the door first to keep public relations in good standing and so far we haven't had a problem but I know the rights as a hound hunter in Indiana.

I'm afraid that you are 100% mistaken just as a lot of hunters are about this issue here in Indiana. Once you personally get involved with an IRATE land owner the law is not known and this doesn't necessarily fit the description of a liberal either as Indiana is a pretty conservative RED state. I will guarantee you that here in Indiana "you nor the law" has the authority to enter onto private property "unless" the law is investigating a violation of the game law(s). Retrieving of game and or dogs does NOT fit that BUT what it does fit is that YOU, the hunter, pursuer or chaser of game which is doing so via the use of your dogs, are trespassing and yourself in violation of the law if you or your dogs should enter private property chasing game.

The Indiana Hunting Guide now clearly defines this under trespassing and has done so for several years now when it never really did elaborate on it and I got my lesson on it many, many years ago when it wasn't talked about much. I also, thought that I had the right to retrieve my property (dogs) and or wounded game under the Wanton waste paragraph which is NOT true. Check out page 6 of the 2014/2015 guide under trespassing. One other issue that is of importance for those who take the stand that "I'm going to go get my dogs, game etc regardless of the law" and that is that Indiana has the "stand your ground" law. I do not bring these things to pen because I agree with them but rather because I spent an entire career as a regulator of the law and try to understand and abide by it fully. I also know that many of us have misunderstood or assumed the word of law over the years and when confronted with the situation the assumptions or lack of knowing the law will create problems for you. It has me over the years and I have been on both sides of this very situation.

Below is an e-mail that I received from the Indiana DNR when I asked this very question. I have copied and pasted it so as folks are aware of the word of law and do NOT assume from what they have heard or think the language is. If one still has doubt of what I have stated then the phone number and the exact person that responded to my inquiry is at the bottom. I hope that this may help others understand the law on this situation and I wished I had known about it years ago.



From: Petercheff, Linnea [mailto:lpetercheff@dnr.IN.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:52 AM
To: klw1953@nwcable.net
Subject: Retrieving Dogs From Private Property



Ken,



There is a state law that prohibits a person from fishing, hunting, trapping, or chasing a wild animal upon privately owned land without the consent of the owner or tenant. Please see IC 14-22-10-1 below.



Conservation officers do have authority to enter private land to investigate violations. It is not the practice of officers to enter private property for the sole purpose of retrieving hunting dogs.





IC 14-22-10-1

Consent to use private land

Sec. 1. A person may not:

(1) fish, hunt, trap, or chase;

(2) shoot with any kind of firearm or archery equipment;

(3) search for or gather any plant life (defined as the members of the kingdoms Fungi and Plantae); or

(4) search for or gather any artifacts (as defined in IC 14-21-1-2);

upon privately owned land without having the consent of the owner or tenant of the land.



Sincerely,



Linnea Petercheff

Operations Staff Specialist

Division of Fish and Wildlife

402 W. Washington Street, Room W273

Indianapolis, IN 46204

Phone: (317) 233-6527

[SMITTY1233]

You would think all the farmers would want the coyotes killed out.

Some farmers have contracted the "liberal gene" or won't stand up to their wife who has it and dont want anything killed. They live in a fish tank and want the world to just be a wildlife scene around them completely misunderstanding predator management.

On the flip side there are hunters that disregard land owners and just accept their dogs will be running across sections. Sometimes through the same property over and over again they have been told to stay off. I would be surprised if coyote hunting with hounds is allowed to continue much longer just like in Europe.... Im sure its stressful for responsible coyote hunters worrying about human conflict every time they cut lose.

I quit coon hunting for that reason. I could be hunting on a 200 acre farm and inevitably a coon would run and tree just outside a mans house that just owns 1 acre. A very awkward encounter would take place and ruin the hunt for me. I think people used to be much more understanding of hound hunters and sort of left them alone but for the reasons above those days are slipping.

Mybeagles you have hit the nail on the head with worrying about human conflict every time I cut loose, for the most part we have land owners wanting us out but with that comes a very watchful eye and if someone does something wrong it can ruin it for the whole group and then we get people that don't like us and always have to know where dogs are just in case they go more bonkers than they already are. It does help public relations that I am the elementary wrestling coach but it doesn't always help.

I'm the varsity girls basketball coach in my town and work in a family owned small town business which all help with public relations for sure. There is a lot of truth to what is being talked about here

[mjd]

We got 3 more this week

[warddog]

In adding to the Indiana laws and how things such as trespassing can escalate into a very serious situation when those take the approach that they will do as they see fit or feel they have the RIGHT to enter private property to retrieve game or their dogs one should be aware of the Castle Doctrine or the "Stand YOUR ground law" in Indiana. I am posting a portion of it so it can be seen how hot heads can lead to physical bodily harm merely due to trespassing upon private property. Of further importance is the use of the word curtilage in the law as we more and more see pieces of property that have boundary fences and city dwellers purchase it and build a home within that fenced boundary. This is especially emphasized when that boundary is posted with NO trespassing signs as that is exactly what hunters with dogs do should either or both cross that boundary. I add this because it is just another example of how times have changed and in the fact that the tree huggers who are moving to the rural areas are more concerned about the ways of the law than they are they ways of what the rural areas or communities USED to be. They have lived nearly their entire lives in a town inundated with laws including those for jay walking and could care less about the American heritage of hunting as they have been domesticated to the point that has been bred out of them! They truly do have a totally different mindset.



Indiana Code IC 35-41-3-2 & IC 35-41-3-3

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person’s unlawful entry of or attack on the person’s dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person’s trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person’s possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person’s immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect

[johns03272008]

Wardog these dogs are a little more expensive than beagles and I will gladly pay a $150 trepassing fee to go retrieve my hounds you are set on giving your view of trepassing so feel free to educate everyone, I still try to get my hounds not to enter private property but also feel free to write them a ticket as well but since you can't write dogs tickets I'm afraid there is nothing anyone can do. There is a leash law in indiana but hunting hounds are exempt from that as long as the dogs can be controlled and shock collars and trackers allow hounds to be controlled

[warddog]

Johns, I could care less whether YOU want to understand the law or not BUT trust me if your dogs go onto someone's private property that absolutely wants to prohibit YOU and or YOU with a game warden or sheriff to enter THEIR property to retrieve your dog then you will learn as I did. OH and by the way if that land owner just happens to have livestock in that fenced enclosure and shoots YOUR HIGH priced dog dead YOU will be crap out of luck as ALL they have to claim is that they were molesting their livestock. That is NOT my view but the law which I have put on here in black and white. I also posted that if you doubted it to call the DNR but YOU evidently are one that wants to think they know it and will be one cryin in their milk when they loose one of them high priced dogs to an erratic tree hugger that has moved into the rural area in their $400,000 two story brick home with their 4-H sheep, goats and or pigs. I'll venture to say that those coyote dogs are not any more expensive than a coon hound and I have experienced this very thing ALL THE WAY to court. Sad thing was the dogs treed and the land owner had sheep (four that were his kids 4-H by the way) and the guy even shot one of his own sheep dead in the process of empting a 12 gauge shotgun at the dogs, killing a $3500.00 coon hound that the guy hunting with us had just bought two days prior as well as putting a lot of lead in the other two. You can elect to stick your head into the ground and rant about YOUR right but YOU have absolutely NONE in Indiana on someone else's private property. I stated if you did not agree or understand this to call the DNR you will also find out that YOU will NOT go upon that private property in Indiana to even retrieve your dog(s) if that land owner doesn't give you, with or without a law enforcement officer present, permission to do so UNLESS that officer suspects criminal activity. There is absolutely nothing in violation of the law to prohibit you from entering their private property so the game warden has no authority to do so. My educational experience actually happened over 30 years ago in Decatur Indiana when most rural folks at least gave hunters permission to go get their dogs but this just happened to be ones that had no clue the hounds were after a treed coon in their barn and not their sheep. The lost sheep was paid for by the county dog tax but the young guy lost a $3500.00 dog. I understand your mindset as many of us who have hunted our entire lives have or had it as well but times have definitely changed and continue to get worse as I believe many on this thread have tried to depict. It isn't about what I think, my opinion or my view and if I can save one person from grief because they truly did not know then it has been worth your slamming me for trying to do so. Whether we as hunters want to believe or agree with it or not, what we do is being challenged more and more by more and more and what we did as a way of life years ago is no longer the norm. I used to get my butt blistered by my parents pretty regularly as a kid and even at SCHOOL today that is child abuse in the eyes of many, do I agree? NO, but the times have changed and so must I.