Question?

Larry G · Post by **Larry G** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:38 am

TC, the out of state trialers were supposed to be covered by a permit paid for by the club. It had expired, so they got tickets... the club paid their fines. The in state boys were supposed to have valid NC licenses and some did not. They had to pay the fines.

From what I have seen at AKC trials, lack of hunt won't stop a dog from becoming a champion. And, it does not have to circle a rabbit solo. It won't be disqualified for running something other than a rabbit. Maybe the AKC could add a special designated title for dogs that pass these tests.

AV Spencer · Post by **AV Spencer** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:44 am

I have run ARHA, UKC, and AKC. I have run only a handful of UKC and 2 AKC trials. I run mostly ARHA. I like to go and meet new people and run my hounds with different hounds. Every format has good and bad points to it.

However, one AKC trial I went to a judge didn't show up. There was one judge and an a "helper" judge. The "helper" judge was elderly and did the best he could.
I ran in the third and final series. We tried to put in on the same rabbit that series 2 ran for about five or six minutes. After that we ran for about 12 minutes and the judge had what he needed.

I thought that was really odd.

AV

Hatfield · Post by **Hatfield** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:50 am

Somebody better save this.

I AGREE with Danny Vansickle!
Good rabbit gundogs should be able to compete in any format that is set up by hunters.

Crabby you may have posted the only truly interesting post on this thread.
I would like to hear what you have to say on this subject. IF you don't want to post it here at least give Ol' Dad a call.

causin trouble, Roberto

Jamie Rice · Post by **Jamie Rice** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:23 am

Mike repost what you had up... Few of us didn't get to see it. If you tick someone off they'll get over it. Heck if you don't have thick skin in trialing you won't get too far.

I've run ARHA progressive pack and little pack previously, however I'll admit I'm not that familiar with the way UKC runs things. Thus I have a couple questions...

1. Do there have to be a certian number of dogs before the trial can be held?

2. I understand they get a certain number of points for 1st place, etc.. Are those points the same no matter how many entries are there?

TC · Post by TC » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:18 am

Fuzz here is how the dogs are scored... This may help you out some...
http://americanbeagler.huntingboards.co ... hp?t=26137

hubertsoutlaw · Post by **hubertsoutlaw** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:18 pm

Is it the 4th of july? Fireworks are on the horizan!!

Matt Wilson · Post by **Matt Wilson** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:47 pm

If you call running in a pen all say long to keep your dogs in shape then my ukc trialers coulndnt keep up as I only run in the wild. In ukc you get scratched for running off game. Seen dogs burn up a deer at a akc trial and everybody acted like nothing was wrong. Just dont like running in pens to judge best dogs. I dont hunt in pens. I have only been to a couple of akc trials and a few of the dogs didnt handle worth a darn. In ukc your dogs have to handle be honest mouthed have good search and better not run off game. Never ran arha, I was told by a few akc only guys if you dont have a running pen to keep your dogs in top condition you wont do very well. I usually am only able to run my dogs 3 to 4 times a week at 2 to 3 hours depending if the rabbits our running. So this is why I like ukc because the average guy with hunting beagles can be competive.

gabe · Post by **gabe** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:41 pm

in ukc average beagles can be competitive as well.

ANTHONY KERR · Post by **ANTHONY KERR** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:53 pm

Larry and TC. I have to send a letter requesting a permit to my local wildlife officer in advance stating the date, time, area, and format of the trial. Here in North Carolina it does not cost anything. The permit covers out of state trialers. NC residents are supposed to have a liscence to participate.

Hills Beagles · Post by **Hills Beagles** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:33 pm

In the mid-west we run in the wild period. No pens here. Off game chases sometimes happen. We try to identify and eliminate the guilty dogs as best as possible. Like I said come and see the level of competition for yourself. Nothing to hide here. Once again I am referring to the MID-WEST only. I can't speak for any other association. Do they shoot over hounds in other formats besides AKC SPO. Just curious since some of you say different formats promote a hunting hound as well.

TOUCHSTONEBGLS · Post by **TOUCHSTONEBGLS** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:46 pm

I am amazed by all the posative comments about AKC. Sounds like a much better format than the way it has been represented to me. A guy even showed me a book of trial results and he showed how one guys dog would win one day and then in some cases the judges dog would win the next day or next weekend. Quite a few examples of that in the book. Buddy judging in print he called it. My question to him at the time was "do you think those guys just have excellent hounds and excellent knowledge to go along with them and that's why they are both successful and judges?". I don't breed my dogs according to any registries rules. Only my rules. I require dogs that can run all day when it is not too hot out. They must jump their own rabbits, stay on the line, not run trash, and not waste my time for any reason. I like as fast as accurate will allow. Correct structure goes a long ways there. Rabbit hunted for 30 yrs before ever going to a trial. UKC Grand Champions are some of the finest rabbit hunting dogs I hace ever seen. UKC CH is only a stepping stone to Grand. Would like to go see an AKC trial. Where do I get info? Does AKC promote correct structure, do they have bench shows? I like to judge hounds but would not be any good at political games. When it comes right down to it, I have as much or more respect for hounds than I do for most people.

blitzen4 · Post by **blitzen4** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:53 pm

I say if you enjoy the level of competition in your chosen format have at it. That being said I have ran in ukc arha and akc and like cetain things about all the different formats. I do feel that akc brings a very high level of competition and to make a fc is a tough road to haul because of the high level of competition and the availability of trials for me here in Mi. not real sure about the availability of trials for other states. I also trial arha lp and that too is a higher level of competition, and I have fun doing it. Not trying to bash anyones fun like I said if you enjoy it then what difference does it make what someone else thinks. Like Hills Beagles says go check it out ad keep an open mind you just might find another format that suits you

THALL · Post by **THALL** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:45 pm

i've run with a high powered ukc champ. everytime the dogs broke down he came to our feet.the owner said the rabbits in a hole. when our dogs got it going again he said they jumped a new rabbit? In the same breath he said he hated checks and they shouldn't be scored?
the arha guys will call a dead track pretty quick too!

Hills Beagles · Post by **Hills Beagles** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:17 pm

I would like to put a little different spin on this post. Instead of criticizing everyone else's format, what don't you like about the one you run in now. I'm not talking about buddy judging I am referring to the rules in general.
I for one think it should be in the rule book to score jumps. I think that goes along with promoting a hunting hound that finds his own game and pursues it with an intent to catch. Dogs pursuing off game should be immediately eliminated from competition. That means everything but a rabbit. The trial is advertised on rabbit, the only thing we should be running is rabbit. I think for the majority that is how they judge but I would like to see it in writing.

Brandon Hill

Post by **Aaron Bartlett** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:17 am

There is good and bad in all of them! Lets face it, there isnt one out there that is perfect. I have entered dogs and Marshalled in a handfull of AKC MidWest trials. Some of the things I like about AKC MidWest is that if you have a good dog it seems to get a good look and if its a sh@#eater it gets the hook fast. There is not a maximum or minimum time for the cast. In the ARHA and UKC sometimes it seems that it takes to long for the sh@#eaters to be sent to the truck. I also like the fact that they shoot over the dogs in AKC. I also like the fact that the judges in AKC can bring back more than one dog in a pack or if they dont like any of the dogs in a pack they arent required to bring any of them back. One thing I dont care for in the AKC is that there seems to be a big difference in what they let some classes get away with compared to others.
I mainly run UKC Performance Pack and I feel that alot of the same things AKC looks for are in the UKC PP rulebook but I would say UKC PP is a touch more conservative than the 15" male classes ive witnessed in AKC. I like that in UKC PP dogs have to certify(jump and circle rabbit on its own and be shot over) before they can become a Champion. I also like that in UKC PP that anything but a rabbit is OFFGAME!

Fuzz,
Since noone else answered your questions, I will.
1. In UKC PP you must have a min. of 10 opens and min. of 3 champs. In UKC Hunting Beagle I dont think there is any min.
2. Yes, the points are the same no matter of the number of dogs.