Part II Mouthy Dogs

[sanfordssj]

This is a very good thread here because big nose vs. cold nose can be a fine line to the owner (kennel blindness). I have owned both at times and it is hard to put up with a cold nose, ghost tracking dog. The one i owned was out of one of my males that i got back when she was almost 2 years old hoping that she would be close to the dog her sire was. Long story short she didn't last long here. The only thing is that regret not trying to work with her. She proved she had the nose power, but she was never given the one on one solo / training time that could have made this dog a good one. I really think i failed this dog and gave up to easy. But, i didn't have the time and had other dogs that needed pack time, so one had to go.

Jeep is a dog that has a big nose..he will bark a tad early and run tracks that most dogs can't. No ghost tracking or standing around a check just giving mouth. He will work it out and produce it. Thats the ideal big nose that most of the guys are looking for. Heading out right now to gun hunt with a few friends.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

My beagles ur right about nose, but where i live conditions are favorable 60% of the time, no need for extra mouth but where u live i would say its a must and rightly so.There is a difference in big nosed and mouthy, big nosed will and mouthy seldom does. Sanford i certainly hope ur running is better today than mine was last night.They never circled a rabbit, young dogs are great ......I think the point is made about mouthy dogs in the south, they are a waste of space and i believe we can all finally agree on this.

[mybeagles]

Hounds with big noses are not always mouthy. They will tongue before the jump most of the time, but they produce most of the time. There are dogs with big noses that will bark when the others are not and the gallery at the trials go nutts until they send those dogs home..... Seen where the dog sent home is the only dog running the rabbit, the rest were unable to run a jumped rabbit......Thats style over accomplishment if there ever was.....

Dogs with big nose jumps 5 times as many rabbits as the dog that only barks on a jump......

Wish we could see more snow trials......hot nosed dogs would have to stay home.......nobody breeding for nose anymore......its just a buzz word tacked on to a dog for sale...."good nose"......good nosed compared to what?????

If this hot nosed fad continues we will loose the snow hound......

IMO, nose is the hardest trait to breed for, so if its not a high priority in selection it soon wont be an option.......

Speed more popular, dogs with big noses are generally not the fastest, more med/fast.....

Slow, pottering, backtracking mouthy fools must be culled heavy. Dogs with big noses that cold trail and produce rabbits with consistency, can run in extreme temps must be greatly valued and heavily utilized in the breeding pool.......

eddywilliams,

I've had the some luck with Ranger Dan, Striker,Grampy and Gay breeding (although a little slow). Adding some Shooter, and Colby hill......

NO line of dogs has the corner on the market.......Ill take back yard breeding in a heart beat if they produce better......

Dogs with great noses dont always produce pups with great noses.......its tough to breed for without extra baggage......Ranger Dan is the greatest producing dog Ive dealt with, but breed it close and you get mouthy fools........

Mybeagles

[JCM]

From all I have learned at trials/hunts:

My dog = Big nose
Your dog = Mouthy

My dog = Opens quick
Your dog = trying to track up a rabbit that died 3 years ago

My dog = Splashes a little in the check
Your dog = Barks all over the freakin woods

My dog = Goes over the end a little because he's so fast
Your dog = Overruns so far he has to hit a tree to stop

My dog = Opens a little harking in
Your dog = Barking fool just has to show how stupid he is

My dog = Just wants to let me know he is hungry
Your dog = Got his kennel manners at the Dollar Discount

My dog = He's just excited to get to go run
Your dog = Turn up the radio so I don't have to listen to that idiot the whole way

My dog = First time he ever minused out
Your dog = Another $20 wasted cause of that mouthy piece of ****

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Hounds with big noses are not always mouthy. They will tongue before the jump most of the time, but they produce most of the time. There are dogs with big noses that will bark when the others are not and the gallery at the trials go nutts until they send those dogs home..... Seen where the dog sent home is the only dog running the rabbit, the rest were unable to run a jumped rabbit......Thats style over accomplishment if there ever was.....

Dogs with big nose jumps 5 times as many rabbits as the dog that only barks on a jump......

Wish we could see more snow trials......hot nosed dogs would have to stay home.......nobody breeding for nose anymore......its just a buzz word tacked on to a dog for sale...."good nose"......good nosed compared to what?????

If this hot nosed fad continues we will loose the snow hound......

IMO, nose is the hardest trait to breed for, so if its not a high priority in selection it soon wont be an option.......

Speed more popular, dogs with big noses are generally not the fastest, more med/fast.....

Slow, pottering, backtracking mouthy fools must be culled heavy. Dogs with big noses that cold trail and produce rabbits with consistency, can run in extreme temps must be greatly valued and heavily utilized in the breeding pool.......

eddywilliams,

I've had the some luck with Ranger Dan, Striker,Grampy and Gay breeding (although a little slow). Adding some Shooter, and Colby hill......

NO line of dogs has the corner on the market.......Ill take back yard breeding in a heart beat if they produce better......

Dogs with great noses dont always produce pups with great noses.......its tough to breed for without extra baggage......Ranger Dan is the greatest producing dog Ive dealt with, but breed it close and you get mouthy fools........

Mybeagles

Maybe you are miss understanding me, Big nosed hounds Mouthy ass dogs I have and always will breed for the nose it takes to move rabbits but, we just dont get weather like you .Ever.I too run the blood you have mentioned granpy, colby hill. but I too have heard about ranger dan powerful nose.I actually bred a ranger dan up close bitch not only did i not recieve a pup i never recieved a stud fee.Another story all together.John Ortuba which is granpy is a close friend of mine and i will at some point bring his line tighter in to mine. I am at this point going to bring in a double bred ogamaw casey bitch and try that, nothing to lose and all to gain.To be turthful my dogs still lack some nose and i will find the right bitch to hit in time it could be my 6 month old double jackpot bitch she is showing her cards and i like em.Good luck in ur quest i know it is hard to achieve the next great one when you only own 6 dogs but in time i will find it.

[mybeagles]

Maple valley,

Wasnt addressing you specifically, just general observation........

Interestingly the guys that NEVER run in extreme weather have elaborate theories on nose.........

I dont live in the extremes that Riverbottom, Norwester and some of the other die hards live in, but I guess I experience enough of the extremes to understand where they are coming from with their theories.......they make good sense to me.......

Mybeagles

[Bev]

How bout this.

A dog that gives a few barks as it is running towards a dog that just jumped a rabbit about 50yrds up in the brush. I call it happy barking. Barks cause another one of its pack mates just jumped one. I have two that will do this every once and awhile. specially if they sat in the kennel with out ran in a week or so and on the first couple bunnies of the morning.

I have one of those barking fools that has to show how stupid she is. She will "hark in" with the yip-yips on her last 10 feet or so of approaching a dog or pack that has just jumped or opened on a rabbit. I know darn well she's not scenting it, because when she gets the whiff of rabbit she goes into her rolling chop. Sometimes she will do the yip-yip (head up) for a few seconds when I first cut her loose. I've been told she's mouthy. She's actually hot-nosed but needed a daily dose of doggy Ritalin when she was young.

As far as the way we tend to classify noses hot or cold as it relates to tongue, Dolly would be as I said, little on the hot nosed side. Maybe even too much for some folks' tastes. Just hunting around, she won't open on a track until the line is fairly hot. If she's right with the pack (not harking or running up to honor) and a dog in that pack starts popping on a line, she will not open until the line is hot enough to suit her, or she deems the rabbit is "up and runnable." I've seen her shoulder-to-shoulder with a dog that's tonguing, and she's not saying a word. Fifty yards later, she might be buying and tonguing. If not, she'll sometimes break off to go find a rabbit. I've also seen her leave a dog that's tonguing, and run up ahead a bit to see if the line gets hotter up there, lol. I have an instance of that on video.

I will say this, if you want to shoot a rabbit on the first circle, you'd better raise your gun if she opens. She probably wouldn't be everyone's first choice of a gun dog, either because she won't open until the rabbit's up, and she was so stinkin' fast the rabbit would be flat to the ground when it went by. Except for her need for the line to be hot, she probably would have been better used on hare. I didn't find her nose/mouth to change much from one season to the next. She is pretty much the same dog every time off the tailgate.

Bloodlines have a helluva lot to do with this. I once had an old slo-dog bitch named Mollie that I could set down on a line that Dolly abandoned ten minutes ago, and Mollie would poke along but be screaming like she was looking at a rabbit. ROTF. Funny thing is, she would shut up if she lost contact with the "old" line, and resume if she hit it again. So was she mouthy, or cold-nosed? Mileage varies, I guess. People have always had different definitions of mouthy.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Maple valley,

Wasnt addressing you specifically, just general observation........

Interestingly the guys that NEVER run in extreme weather have elaborate theories on nose.........

I dont live in the extremes that Riverbottom, Norwester and some of the other die hards live in, but I guess I experience enough of the extremes to understand where they are coming from with their theories.......they make good sense to me.......

Mybeagles

Well we all got opinions i reckon , but i have never ever hunted anywhere like where you boys hunt.Norwester and riverbotton both are very interesting to read, thats extreme at its best.All i know is a hollar in kentucky and a average of maybe 3" of snow a year.I like tight mouth no nonsense type hounds.And woodford reserve.Made in kentucky.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Maple valley,

Wasnt addressing you specifically, just general observation........

Interestingly the guys that NEVER run in extreme weather have elaborate theories on nose.........

I dont live in the extremes that Riverbottom, Norwester and some of the other die hards live in, but I guess I experience enough of the extremes to understand where they are coming from with their theories.......they make good sense to me.......

Mybeagles

Well we all got opinions i reckon , but i have never ever hunted anywhere like where you boys hunt.Norwester and riverbotton both are very interesting to read, thats extreme at its best.All i know is a hollar in kentucky and a average of maybe 3" of snow a year.I like tight mouth no nonsense type hounds.And woodford reserve.Made in kentucky.

[swing]

Dogs with big nose jumps 5 times as many rabbits as the dog that only barks on a jump......

I dont think I agree with that statement, but thats your opinion, and im not arguing. Just dont think that is always so.

[rabbitsmoker]

BIG NOSE DOG RUNS RABBIT THAT MOVED 2 HOURS AGO A MOUTHY TRYS TO RUN A RABBIT THAT MOVED YESTERDAY THAT IS SITTIN ALL THE WAY ACCROSS THE PROPERTY A BIG NOSE DOG GIVES MOUTH UNTIL THE JUMP SOME DOGS SMELL THE SAME RABBIT AND WORKS THE SAME TRACK SILENTLY TO THE JUMP OR JUST BEFORE SOME DOGS CANT SMELL NOTHING UNTIL THE RABBIT MOVES ITS AL IN WHAT KINDA DOG YOU HAVE

[da ridgetop]

I think their a big difference in big nose and mouthy hound,mouthy in my opinion a mouthy hounds is a hound that constantly barks and never produces or never shuts its mouth in the check area,runs over the end barking all the time turns around and never shuts up big nose hound barks before the rabbit is up but 90% of the time produces a rabbit( preferably only a couple minutes definately not 2hrs) never saw a hound yet with a nose thats good enough to run on any day that couldn't get into trouble when conditions are good not saying that theirs not a perfect big nose hound but personally never seen one Donald

[rabbitsmoker]

Well to me a mouthyy dog is a dog that barks going to another dog-a dog that barks when you turn them out-a dog that barks on other dogs track-or human track-a dog that barks in a check and thier nowhere close where the rabbit was and i'l go as far as one that barks in the box all the way to the field i hate that myself and last a dog that barks and cant produce excuses can be made happy barking anxious or what ever the bottom line is thier mouthy and howw much can you tolerate my toerance on a mouthy dog is none A cold nose big nose whichever you want to call it is the hunters choice on what fits his needs on where he lives and the conditions my dogs bark about 3-5 times and the rabbit is up thats perfect for me but if i lived where you do i may have a different outlook

[Joeyman]

hey rabbitsmoker would you call a dog that barks at feeding time mouthy?

[rabbitsmoker]

SOME DO THAT WOULD LISTED UNDER KENNEL MANNERS I GOT DOGS THAT NEVER BARK UNTIL THEY RUN. PRETTY QUIET AROUND MY HOUSE I GUESS THAT WOULD MOUTHY IN THE KENNEL. BARKING IN THE FIELD AND NOT RUNNING A RABBIT IS MOUTHY