when do you call it "your line"

[Bob Huffman]

If I bought a line because I liked its traits, it would still be that line even if were breeding it. It was already created ans should only becalled the originators line if the originator created a line that was differnat from the original. A line is like a breed only on a smaller scale. A line has as its main identity, the ability to produce a specific type. In truth, it may be harder to create a new line than most think. If you then outcross and don't keep the ones that resemble your line, you have jumped the fence. The number one factor is to have a standard that is differant from the original stock you are trying to improve. Once you accomplish the improvement and get them to breed true, you have your own line. If you are just breeding for the same traits of the original stock, you are breeding a line that has already been created by someone else. If you start with poor dogs and continualy improve them over the years and breed for one specific and set standard, no doubt they would most likely be unique within the breed and it would be your line. Creating a line is not just breeding several generations. On the other hand, any line gets changed when it changes hands unless there is cooperation among the new and old breeders in some form or another. It could even be by accident in the case of each liking the same type unknowingly. If I sold a dog to someone theie standard was differant than mine, I sure wouldn't want them to call there dogs my line. One more thing about breeding dogs. You have to know how to outcross a line and still keep your own traits. This is the true breeders art. it is also possible to use mediocre lines and create a very good line if you know how to cross. It is possible to create a good or dogs from 2 parents that ain't worth feeding if you know how to cross. You have to understand how traits are inherited and how to blend. You must also make a good guess on how much each parent will put in the pups and what traits. It helps to know the families but blending is half the battle no matter if you are outcrossing or line breeding. If I needed a trait from another lie, it depends on which trait I need whether to use an inbred dog or an outcrossed dog as a parent. If I needed to outcross for health reasons and didn't need the outcross for traits, I would make sure the outcross parent was a very outcrossed animal so its influence on the pupos was as small as possible. Think of a line like you would a breed. If I breed a beagle to Beagle I am breeding Beagles. Same with a line.

[terry goforth]

This is real funny to me. To call it your line. You need to go out and places some of these dog's at the hunt's. And do the breeding yourself. Stoney Branch ,Redtick is his dad . Some of these so call breeders are just liveing off real breeder's name. Don work realy hard to make this line and his name. You need to this your self not hunt on the board. Take them to the hunt's and win and have them for twenty years. Then you can call them your line!

[blackdirt beagles]

see you at work later terry . taking dogs to hunts has very little to do with developing a line.

[Phillip Smith]

When a man starts with two dogs and makes the first cross then it's the start of a new line. Now it can end there and never be anything or maybe 20 years later it is one of the best line of dogs around. When did it become a new line? It for sure became a different line when someone besides the oringinal breeders made the first cross and put his different kennel name on it.
Now if only one cross is made and that's the end to it then it don't become anything but if kept going by the same breeder and improved on then it is a different and new line of dogs.

Any big breeder had a start some where and ask them where they started and everyone of them will tell you the first two dogs that they started with. They don't tell you it was two dogs two or three generations down the road, it starts with the first two dogs he breeds!

Just because someone makes a cross and puts their kennel name on it doesn't mean a new line is started but if it is kept going them that's where it starts.

Or let me put it this way, ever top breeder and I've read many stories and proflies on big time breeders that have stood the test of time and they always tell the first cross they started with and the first dogs they used.

[terry goforth]

Blackdirt, you need to do your home work better on these dog's. To get top dog's, you have to breed the best to the best. Not just because their in heat! This line of dog's are well known for their big mouth's. Not litte chop mouth's. You breed to get better hound's . Not to go backwards. Looks like a puppy mill around this area! As for the hunt's. You can't hit a home run if you don't step up to the plate!!

[blackdirt beagles]

Blackdirt, you need to do your home work better on these dog's. To get top dog's, you have to breed the best to the best. Not just because their in heat! This line of dog's are well known for their big mouth's. Not litte chop mouth's. You breed to get better hound's . Not to go backwards. Looks like a puppy mill around this area! As for the hunt's. You can't hit a home run if you don't step up to the plate!!

id say that too if my best beagle was a front chasin, swingin wildman . as for my dogs, im very happy with everything i got. other than not having old grizzly bear around, i cant think of anything id like to get, just more of the same. this was a general question about when ANYONE could call a line theirs. as for me, ive had this line for almost 10 years and my last litter i had are 4th generation pups i bred. i think that might at least begin to call it my line. shouldnt you be coon hunting terry or did the wife ground you?

[blackdirt beagles]

hey at least i started a good topic this time

[Aaron Bartlett]

You had Grizzly Bear there for a few years and I guess you used him in your breeding program since you called him your stud dog. Just wondered how many dogs that you are keeping around now are out of him and what he gave to your line.

[tnbeagleman]

I'm no breeder by no means but if I was I'd sell you a dog from my kennel with my name on it but if you crossed it out I'd expect you to take my name off unless I gave you permission.

[blackdirt beagles]

i had bear for 8 years(til his death). he is the grandsire to my current stud dog, he is the sire to a young male i own, i own a half sister to him, and he would be the great grand sire of the litter of puppies i have. i also owned his mom for awhile before her death. i only have 1 dog in my kennel who does not go back to him, but she is also bramlett bred by other dogs of the line, is that good enough for you aaron??
there are also quite a few nice dogs out of him that i have sold over the years. if you need, im sure i could get you quite a few references. does this answer what he gave to my line?? ive got a male puppy coming next month that is the spitting image of old bear. on its topside, grizzly bear would be the great grand sire and on the bottom, he would be an uncle, so im gonna have to say, yep, old bear did have quite and influence on my line. and even after his death, he will influence my line for quite awhile it seems.

[blackdirt beagles]

after re reading my last post, i think i pretty much answered my original question. after reading all that, its pretty easy to say that yes i do have my own line now. it may well be a close offshoot to the original line but it is more or less based on grizzly bear. over the years ive always bred for his blood and with good reason. you guys can keep debating all this, but at least i can honestly say that i am at the beginning stages of my own line. you never know which direction it will go in another 10 years, but i'll be the one planning it out .

[WSRandy]

This is real funny to me. To call it your line. You need to go out and places some of these dog's at the hunt's.

I dont see what placing in a hunt and having your own line has to do with each other I can tell you without a doubt in my mind....if you are basing a line of dogs on placing in hunts and whether they are "Champions"........I got some ocean front property in Iowa to sale ya!

What have you done for me lately?? I wanna see them smoke a rabbit to the gun, not win some jircle cerk down at the local beagle club.......

[Guest]

after reading this, what is a true and tried patch hound from tn? if someone other than the orginal line owner picks a cross then you cannot have a PURE line of hounds. just my .02 worth

[terry goforth]

WSRandy,I don't think that Don hunted on the internet. Don worked his dog's hard and took them to the hunt's and won. Don made a name for his self with his dog's, not by the internet. Taking credit for hound's that you didn't have any thing to do with is not right! As far 4th and 5th generation that you breed. That's funny! As far as the wildman. If i have him shape. You have to hope he make's swing in there for your dog's to get back in the chase.

[Doc S]

This has been a very enjoyable thread to read. Like an old hen party the way y'all get to bickering and squabbling sometimes. Personally, I think it would be very egocentric to ever call a line your own. All beagle "blood lines" started with the work of someone(or most often multiple someone's) else. IMHO...the work of a breeder becomes a "line" when others call it a line, not when the breeder himself does. A kennel name, breeder's name, or whatever on the front of that dog's long fancy handle just indicates who bred and/or raised him. The test of time is what will make that line your own. When you are dead and gone or have long since been sitting in the rocker on the porch because your knees/back/heart/lungs/whatever won't let you chase hounds through the brush and folks still refer to hounds from your kennel as "_______ dogs", then you have created a "bloodline."

Just had to throw in my two cents there. Get lots of time to mull over these things when you spend all those long hours standing in Arkansas river bottoms and swamps, Midwest briar patches, and now the cedar swamps and pine patches up here. Gonna turn into a "By Gawd" philosopher at this rate!
Doc S