A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
RabbithoundJB,
You hit another point I have often taken up with friends. But first my disclaimer, as there is always the exception, but I believe that it is not very often you are going to buy the best hound from a devoted hunter, breeder and trialer. It is too hard to get a great one. And when somebody really has one they will not sell them for anything, if this is really a passion for them.
With the disclaimer and side bar out of the way, thats why I was talking about breeding and buying and selling of puppies. Getting into adult running and not so running adult dogs and some of the things that go on could start a very long thread.
However perhaps we have so many adult dogs being traded because the breedings were not well planned, well thought out, and just rash and random.
I have Patch hounds most that are too tall to trial, but are awesome gun dogs. Some would tell me that being over height would be a reason NOT to breed. I already have a waiting list for puppies from both of my girls and I haven't even decided on a stud for the the one (though am considering a couple). But I put lots of thought into the crosses and make sure I have enough homes to send them too before I breed. Make money.....hardly.
I feed 290 lbs worth of dog for 356 days out of the year, I will never make money. But I always give alot of thought to what is going in the genes.
Good post, tiffinis! I think some of you are being too hard on the breeders. We trial a dog, we gun him/er...they've passed our test. In good faith we breed to that dog that has done equally as well. We've done the research and the pedigrees should mesh. We've spent considerable time in the field, on the road, and money at the feed store. They are worth $250 as six week-old-pups. Can we guarantee you will have a world beater? No. Who can at six weeks old? Somebody has to breed what they think will make good dogs, but all breeders can't keep a whole litter for you until it's 9 months old and started so you will feel you got your money's worth. You must do your homework and take a chance when you buy a puppy.
I ask the critics here, please don't lump everyone into the same category as the backyard trend breeder who also has chihuahuas, bulldogs, and yorkies on the place, and isn't even aware that beagles are suppose to hunt. Competition breeders won't know anything until the first litter is grown and gone if the cross was a nick or not. There's got to be a first breeding sometime to know.
I am not sure anybody is really being hard on anyone. We are having a pretty civil and frank discussion on breeding, the results, the reasons and the goals and the financials of the whole thing. I would say most folks who come here are somewhat dedicated to the breed, and any discussion with committed individuals usually present many sides and ideas about things.
I would be willing to bet that most of the "backyard breeding" that is not well thought out goes on in other circles other than here. We may not all have the same thoughts about the subject, but I have enjoyed just about everyones view. If we stop and really consider our breedings, for whatever purpose we can only improve.
I feed 290 lbs worth of dog for 356 days out of the year(365)
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We've spent considerable time in the field, on the road, and money at the feed store. They are worth $250 as six week-old-pups.]
That is something else I have been wondering about....How do you figure out what a 6 week old gamble is worth?I see all these things about feed for a year and time in the field and on the road etc.When you go to sell a vehicle do you expect to be payed back for all the oil changes and gas that you have used ??
I am only concerned for the future of the sport,if everyone starts raising prices-(as I read earlier it will be a rich mans sport)
Because it doesn't stop at campaigning, training, and evaluating the parents. Once those puppies are born, there's more work to do. Ya gotta worm them, sit up all night sometimes then go to work the next day, shots, and a litter of ten is eating a fair amount of food and leaving a bigger amount of poop. It's WORK to get pups ready for others - even at six weeks of age, and your time is worth something - even if it is for a hobby.
It's not a matter of recooping everything you've spent, but lemme ask you this, when you pay off your car and drive it for another year, do you just give it away when you're ready for a new one? I've been beagling for almost 15 years now, and everything has gone up except the price of beagle pups. From what I've seen they are steadily holding at $150 to $250 (on an average), and the sport is still growing.
I think if the price of puppies goes up, you're going to have a lot more backyard breedings going on. More people will breed their own instead of paying more. Either way it's a.gamble. What a person can afford at the time will probably dictate what pup they buy. And which puppy will be better?
Bear's Woodsedge Daisy
Aspen Hollow Daisey II
Smoke Hollow Crankin' Cooter
and Just Call Me Suzy
I think comparing the price of beagle pups to the lap dog puppys is a non issue. Those people that spend a ton of money on a lap dog know they are going to have that dog for the rest of its life (for the most part). If I had half the money back that I have spent on well bred pups that didn't turn out I could buy a bunch of them lap dogs and make some money. The small amount of breeding I have done over the years I have done to get some of what I have, I either give the rest of the pups to friends to see how the litter turns out or sell them cheap to a newbie that wants to get started. So I guess I am gulity of selling 50 dollar pups. Duke you have run with me, everything you saw run was bred here except the female, and she was the mother to the others. Yes they are akc registered and I have had some luck in lp in nkc but most people wouldn't know me or my dogs if I showed up on their doorstep. But I don't want to spend 250 dollars for pups anymore, just not that many make it, and when you have a year or more in that dog and it don't cut the mustard you have spent a lot of money past the puppy price. JMHO Hare
Puppies are always a gamble in my opinion - no matter if you paid top dollar or were given one. There's always a chance you'll get the knucklehead in the litter. You can keep only one out of your own litter and still wind up with the only knucklehead in it, lol. You take a puppy on faith, I think.
most of these pups are not going to turn into a house pet. they are going to be kenneled in hopes they can run a rabbit. if not then they will be culled out. only way u will see the price go up is if u only have a few people breeding. thats not going to happen so u have to sell your pups at a going rate or take the chance of sitting on them for awhile. hell u can buy a adult hound for 400 and prolly end up with a nice rabbit dog. my self i am not looking to make money. i am looking for a better hound. so i will keep the pups i want a sell the rest at a fair price. but i will say this. i dont keep femals as brood bitches so when the time comes u are more then welcome to watch my hounds run.
also on a side note, there are some very good people in the beagle game. but there is also some low life bottom feeder who lie about ever thing and will sooner or later be removed from the game. lie so much that they wont be able to give pups away. i can tell u this i have meet a few in the last year.
Bottomline, this is a free market economy that is driven by supply and demand. The price is dictated by what the buyer is willing to pay for the item. Whether this is $1000 for a puggle pup or $ 150 for a hunting beagle pup. Some people may feel this is unfortunate, but that's the way it is.
We have a litter on average every other year, sometimes once a year. We only breed to well proven hunting hounds that have at least two solid hunting seasons under their belt. Normally we own both the sire and dam so all the strengths and weaknesses are very well known before a breeding is decided upon. The reason we decide to breed is for our own kennel- it is because we want a pup (or pups) out of a cross for our own pack. There have been times we've kept every pup out of a particular litter. The pups we don't keep are easy to sell to local hunters that we run with or that have heard of our hounds from others. We've been known to give some pups away to young or new hunters or friends. It is definitley not about the money! Like most have mentioned, you could never break even that way unless you were rolling out litter after litter.
I'm sure there are plenty of accidental breedings out there like what happened to me. A male I really like bred my female that I think is okay. This was going to be her last season with me, but I turned my back and now I have pups. I'm not a breeder, never wanted to be a breeder, but we'll see what happens.
adult dogs and some of the things that go on could start a very long thread. 
However perhaps we have so many adult dogs being traded because the breedings were not well planned, well thought out, and just rash and random. 
