The American Beagler Forum

I agree that no one should buy a hound w/o seeing it run. If you do then the blame is on you. However if you buy a dog from someone and they lead you to believe that it is registered when it is not. It doesnt say much.

I know alot of horse traders that wont lie to you but they wont offer up information unless its asked. I guess dog traders do it too.

I still say most of the traders and dog jockeys I know have decent reputations. THey will at least return phone calls. Most of their business is generated by word of mouth. WIth the internet connecting soo many people maybe the word will get out. The dog jockeys may rethink their business practices.

Know I am not against dog jockeys or traders by any means. Their are some outstanding dogs out their right know that passed through a traders kennels. There are alot of really good traders out there. I have known traders that use it as a hobby and every dog they own are temporary hounds. THey simply enjoy owning and trading dogs.

I agree, if I buy a dog sight unseen and it turns out to be a dog with traits I don't desire, that is my fault. But if I am told a dog is registered and he is not, that is the sellers fault. There was no misunderstanding here on my part I wanted an AKC registered male with Bramlett lines. That was all no more no less, I did not ask for Superdog with a cape that read rabbit hunter, just some AKC papers and Bramlett lines. The running part was something I was going to deal with. At this point I think I did get Superdog, because I still don't know his secret identity. I may get lucky and find out his sire was Clark Kent and his dam is Lois Lane. Ya never know........

baaaaaaaahahahhahaaaa

Alabama John wrote: I will, and want to, go to my grave thinking you can trust, by far, the great majority of people!

john . i think your right about that.. the problem is finding the people you can trust . i know a few i would buy a dog from just cause what they told me. i have a few who would buy a dog from me like that.. i havent bought many dogs. i have seen a lot of my friends buy junk dogs. seems like the farther away a dog is the better they think it will be. ive only known a few guys who bought a lot of good dogs.. . i sell a dog or two every year.. i describe them very honestly.. i do not have anything for sale now. this is not an ad... but anyways sometimes im amazed by the people who call looking for dogs. they almost are begging to be told that yes sir i have the worlds greatest dog here hes perfect in every way and im only selling him so cheap cause hes such a good dog i cant stand it... .. i really am having a hard time putting this in words ..what im saying is a lot of naive dog buyers that are way too trusting.. they want to be told that im selling a perfect dog for cheap money.. i always decribe every fault i know about. this will turn some right away.... they know somebody else has one with no faults.. ive never seen a dog with no faults . i sure wouldnt sell him if i ever find one.. i sold a young walker last year. grade no papers . 2500$ bear dog.. she has plenty of faults... sold her a mile from my house to a guy thats hunted with her alot.. why dont you see if he can be bought now.. i got calls from all over the country... i needed to raise some cash. i thought i priced this dog a little high..i didnt expect to sell her until season opened and i wanted to sell her in the woods.. lot of people offered me less money.. a lot werent interested after i described her faults... they said there were better dogs for less money.. they hadnt hunted with her. they also hadnt hunted with the others theyd seen advertized.. i got calls on her for months after i sold her.. . anyways ive been on both sides of this dog selling business. i hate to sell a dog without showing it. my advice is if you cant try a dog pay somebody that lives closer to go try it for you.. best coon dog i ever owned i bought from a dog jockey.. i paid 1500$ i found out afterwards hed bought her for 50$ i had 30 days to try her and i wouldnt have sold her for twice that price.. she got better everynight and i thought she was just getting used to me.. i guess what happened was she was a natural.. anyways i think the internets great if you get porked on a dog deal complain loud and hard. maybe save somebody else from same thing.. if im looking to buy a dog im going to look real hard within driving distance so i can try it out.. pete

Snowshoehairguide very good post, The only thing else i would ad to it would be Tell the seller if the dog does'nt work out as said.
- I WILL BE BACK - You would be surprised how many dogjockeys would change there storie on the dog real quick.

wellafter a week on intense extra petting and all she seemed like i coul;d take her hunting i did this morn and now i still havent got her she wont come to me and my other dogs ran a rabbit over the top of her and she seen it but didnt even try to run it and she is guaranteed to be started well!!!!

How old is this female?

BEV HE TOLD ME IT WAS 13 MONTHS SO I FIGURED IT WAS STARTED AS WELL but she might be 6 or 7 months who knows nothing so far he told me was true so why should that be he has an enemy for life here!

Trackman & Bowhunter59

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate encounter with Merle Crain. You've discovered the true spirit of beagling. I hope your problems can be solved but I doubt it. Trackman, I applaud Bev for trying to help you.

After reading and posting some questions on various beagle boards for almost a year, I went to the UKC World Championship in Holmesville (02). There I met Bev and Ralph and was very favorably impressed. I subscribed to TAB and actually tried to buy one of two dogs from them- as it worked out they were already spoken for. Bev and Ralph took a lot of time to explain things to my wife and I.

I was aware of the advertising disclaimer in all magazines, but a half page ad in TAB did play a large part in my decision to contact a particular breeder- not Merle. The ad, that the breeder claimed to be an AKC judge (about the only truthful thing he told me), and his apparent honesty and knowledge went a long way to allay my concerns. I had by this time discovered that a "trial period" or "right to return" is only offered by those who do not have dogs actually for sale. I won't get into the details but this guy showed the dogs in a way and area as to conceal their faults.

When I discovered that I'd been ripped off I wrote a letter to the breeder and enclosed it with a cover letter to both Bev and the AKC. I did not threaten to cancell my subscription to TAB or even not to renew. I had no reason to. I assumed that a "bad guy" had gotten past Bev and wrote that I hoped she would "consider my experience before accepting" further ads from this breeder.

It never occured to me that the person who's posts I followed and who's advice I tried to follow would knowingly accept an ad from a ripoff atrist. It seemed inconceivable that the individual I met at Holmesville would willingly profit from anothers' pain and financial loss much less try to make that act sound like a point of honor..."never succumbed to the tyranny of threats".

I haven't seen another ad from this individual. Even though I received no response, I figured others also had had problems with him- now I'm guessing he didn't submit another ad. I do not think it is reasonable to expect a publisher to refuse ads based on the complaints of only one individual. I do think it is reasonable to express, to the publisher, disatisfaction with the products or sevices of an advertiser. It is also reasonable to expect that, after a number of complaints have been registered, that ad space not be sold to that advertiser. To do otherwise is not simply a matter of "buisness is just that business" but a matter of morality. The disclaimer only takes care of legality. There is no seperate and different right and wrong for businesses and individuals. After all, anything Merle may have done is just 'business" to him...nothing personal. Does that excuse his actions?

Trackman and Bowhunter 59, I suggest you send copies of any pertinent documents and a letter of explanation to the attorney general of Illinois. If he or she gets enough complaints... who knows. Phone calls are senseless unless you can legally tape them. If, as you think, he lied to you once he will again.

Bob (in Ohio)

Hey BowHunter,
I wouldnt get totally discouraged with the little dog. It is still relatively young. Alot of my dogs that I start in the running pens wont pack for four or five outings with my pack. This is after I have seen them stroke in a pen and cover dogs that they are running with in the pen, only to take them home and have them stand at my feet a couple of outings. It is frustrating but it happens and has is no indication of the hound you will have. In addition I run mostly by myself and only on occasion run with others. My young dogs are sceptical of covering strange dogs at first, but typically get with the program. As far as the shyness some take more time and require additional bonding.

Point I am trying to say is dont give up on the little hound until you have had and fooled with her a good thirty days. I dont care what others will say on here about young dogs must be broke dogs at six to twelve months, it happens but slower progression is the norm. With the running pens and training techniques progressing I think us houndsmen sometime expect too much from our young dogs and forget that they are still babies, adolescents and so on. So hang with your young dog it cant help who jockied it.

Will Mason

thx mason for the word on encouragement .i am giving her moire timne i finally caught thx to m\ other dogs diviting her eyes for a moment.i am goin to work with her and see if she will straighten out the shy part is the worst if she got any hunt in her i canget it out but right now she is to scared to think about hunting!somebody say a prayer !i'm not even mad at merle no more i have just learned a lesson never buy off a tailgate and get a trial period if they r not willing for it tobe what they say then it probably aint!

Bowhunter. in trying to assist you, give the article in July Ameriacan Beagler about teaching dogs to handle a look. It also works great with shy dogs. It seems to work fullproof on a hard headed independant dogs and is real good for SHY dogs. It gets down on a level that the dog can understand and takes away any confusion as to what it is suppose to do. He feels confidant because he thinks he is controlling the situation and can accomplish things. Good luck!

Hey bowhunter, the next time I come up and run, you have that dog the way you want her. If she pulls that crap again, I'll take care of her and you can ship her remains back to merle.

I am echoing the likes of Masonbeagles I wouldnt get to discouraged yet with her. I have seen dogs that take a while to hark into a pack. Not all dogs will run right out and hunt for you until they get to know you. What I like to do is put a big long 30 to 40 foot rope on dog and take a piece of hot dog call them and if they wont come pull them in. When they come in make a big fuss and give them some hot dog. Keep doing this and they dog will get the message. Be careful not to over do the pulling in a shy dog can be wrecked by to much force. Do it gentle while calling in a soothing voice. (Listen to me I sound like a shrink) I am just giving advice that has worked for me in the past with shy dogs. As far as hunt and being able to run a rabbit. They either have it or they don't but I would give her ample time to prove she does or doesnt.

It's hard for me to tell you to give up on her. There couldn't be a hound anywhere that was more man shy, hand shy, diseased and hopeless than the hound in my avatar. I took him from a dog trader only to spare his life. Turned out I'd stumbled upon a diamond in the rough and he is now the barometer by which all hounds in our kennel are judged.

We have 17 hounds in the kennel, 15 AKC registered, with pretty nice pedigrees. I choose this one grade gundog-supreme as my avatar, because he represents to me that things aren't always as they seem, and sometimes the greatest gifts can come in the most peculiar of circumstances.

I wish for you and everyone else a diamond in the rough, and if not this hound, then perhaps another one day.