Puppy Mills Good or Bad

coyote hunter · Post by **coyote hunter** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:02 pm

So I guess its ok to do that and I am wrong ????????

New York Hillbilly · Post by **New York Hillbilly** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:10 am

Coyote Hunter,
You can see by my posts on this topic especially on page three that I too have negative feelings on the same thing that you mention. By the way, if you are successful coyote hunter you are more than welcome to come and kill all of them here at my place. We are crawling with them!
NYH

AlabamaSwamper · Post by **AlabamaSwamper** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:47 am

coyote hunter wrote:So if I pay Top dollar for a male champion, stud it out in the south to anyone that wants to breed to it or where ever for 200.00 I am not a puppy mill ??????????????????????????? as regards to keeping a litter and thinning it out in the end as to whats not quality is wrong ?????? not letting the culls produce isn't that bettering the breed?????Or should a person send it to one of those big name studs for a breeding???Take care Dan.

If you have a male that is truly worthy of breeding, I see nothing wrong with studding it out. Unfortunately, there is probably lots of them that are not worthy and being bred but that's another subject. Thinning a litter out and keeping the best is bettering the breed but even the best of a litter may not be worth breeding in the future.

coyote hunter · Post by **coyote hunter** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:12 pm

Hi there Alabama.I was not talking about the male ,what I said was if I BUY a male that is a feild champion or proven and stud it out to breed to anyone one who wants to pay me 200.00 I would think that is some what of a puppymill .Are all the females he is being breed to proven????If not what would you call the guy that is the stud owner. I think it is MR.PUPPYMILL lol.

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:59 pm

Daustin - the commercial breeders are puppy mills. They may be regulated by the USDA, and not all of the dogs live in deplorable conditions, but they certainly are puppy mills. They just happen to be regulated puppy mills (and often POORLY regulated). These dogs will never leave the small pens they are confined to, and the only reason they are alive is to breed. Their offspring may go to pet stores, or they may go to research labs. These breeders are not doing anything to improve the breed, nor are they making any effort to do so. I don't care if they're at some of the commercial farms where living conditions are relatively pristine or that they get medical attention when necessary. Dogs aren't meant to live that way, and they develop neurological disorders to prove it. The only commercial breeders that do make an effort in selective breeding are the ones who sell to research labs, because the research labs want a healthy dog with no temperament issues. These commercial breeders have to do some screening of the genetics they put out.

The commercial breeders do nothing to lower the prices of dogs these days. In fact, when the general public buys a commercially-bred dog (which is through a pet store), they spend hundreds more than the usual buyer for a dog that is generally of less quality than what they could find from just any random breeder. I don't know if you meant something different by the term "commercial breeders," but this is the term usually given to licensed USDA breeders. The reason they have a license is so that they can sell to resellers (pet stores), brokers, and labs.

I would agree that the supply of purebred puppies is equal to or exceeded by demand. Anyone with an established kennel who breeds can tell you they get far more calls from interested parties than they produce. However, the supply of dogs heavily exceeds demand. The number of dogs in animal shelters and the number of dogs euthanized in shelters each year is proof enough of that. And that doesn't include the ones that end up being just tied-up in the backyard or otherwise essentially unwanted who are owned by people who never should've bought a dog to begin with.

coyote hunter - Technically, I guess you don't have a puppy mill if you just have a stud dog. But if you're just studding-out your dog to whoever will pay $200, you very well could be supporting some puppy mills or producing dogs that will end up as breeding stock in puppy mills. It doesn't take that many questions to screen most of those people out. Most of them get frustrated when you ask a question or two and will take their "business" elsewhere.

huddie · Post by **huddie** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:49 am

Having a stud dog is one thing but going all over the country buying up finished champions is another. Why would a person do this if they were not trying to make money?

AlabamaSwamper · Post by **AlabamaSwamper** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:51 pm

coyote hunter wrote:Hi there Alabama.I was not talking about the male ,what I said was if I BUY a male that is a feild champion or proven and stud it out to breed to anyone one who wants to pay me 200.00 I would think that is some what of a puppymill .Are all the females he is being breed to proven????If not what would you call the guy that is the stud owner. I think it is MR.PUPPYMILL lol.

Any stud owner that allows his dog to be bred to any and everything is what I would call an irresponsible breeder! So yes, he is contributing somewhat. I will agree.