hare bred hounds X cottontail bred hounds

[Newt]

[quote="bill (flint river . the hounds that i call fast would always have a hard time on cotton tail when the running was bad. the upper med speed hounds could gear down and get the job done. trials hounds today are not the same as the dogs from 20 years ago. alot of the hard hunting, big nose hounds have ben pushed out.[/quote]

You got that right. I once had a male, Northwoods breeding, that in his only LPH Trial he took third in a class of over forty hounds. FC Wingates Brandon won the Trial. In his only UBGF Trial he got NBQ. FC Boggy Hollar Buddie won the Trial.

[WELLS WOODS]

Spring had plenty of foot, but could control the line & Gator had wins in the Mid-West, Northern Mi. Hare Assoc. & Canada. John Dewyse said he was hard hitting & fast, but ran the line, not his packmates. Foot shouldn't be confused with racing & a rough style. I've never seen a "good" dog that couldn't adjust their speed to conditions. They have the brains to know how fast their nose will let them run the rabbit & are always trying to run as fast and accurate as possible. Running in one certain gear all the time, either fast, medium or slow, regardless of scenting conditions, is the sign of a dog that lacks ability.

[jim matuszewski]

Spring had plenty of foot, but could control the line & Gator had wins in the Mid-West, Northern Mi. Hare Assoc. & Canada. John Dewyse said he was hard hitting & fast, but ran the line, not his packmates. Foot shouldn't be confused with racing & a rough style. I've never seen a "good" dog that couldn't adjust their speed to conditions. They have the brains to know how fast their nose will let them run the rabbit & are always trying to run as fast and accurate as possible. Running in one certain gear all the time, either fast, medium or slow, regardless of scenting conditions, is the sign of a dog that lacks ability.

best post on this topic

[J&J Run Em Down]

I would have to agree with Greg spring was a dog that could fly or walk a track I know first hand I did not know her or Greg I juge her at Huron-Valley beagle club with John Dann she did a real good job all day but won it on the last two rabbits for me I had her 2nd in till then she had all the drives we had head up running those little bitchs just flat out ran we ran only 1/2 dozen rabbits but every rabbits ran for 40 mins or longer it got around 75 deg latter in the winner pack we got down to five dogs walk them back up to the front of the grownds by a bunch of junk cars and a old pig bar jump two rabbits that ran and turn then spring show me her skills runing those rabbits with such a control she had to win when john and I got back toghter we had the same thing in are books and call it the 2nd place dog was own by Doug mans I believe she finish latter on in the year. so in my book a dog can run fast and control it that's the kind Im looking for

[WELLS WOODS]

Thanks. That was a nice winners pack.

[WELLS WOODS]

That was the trial when Tom Summers had the bad car wreck. He was scheduled to judge I think. Thank God he survived.

[J&J Run Em Down]

Yes I got the call to juge for him because a drunk driver hit him head on thank god he made it

[duckbuster38401]

seems like a lot of you southern boys are introducing northern hare hounds into your programs , my question is it to add speed or to add nose to the more tradional cottontail bred dogs or maybe both

I did it for both, I liked Butkus stuff, I called Don McVay at the time and bought a female. She was a nice dog at a pup. Someone stole her while we were hunting and two other dogs of mine. Tim heard about it and offered me a female. I have had her a few years now. I was looking for another pup bred like her, I met Dave Lengel, bought a pup and Pual Grebel brought her to TN for me. It worked out well and now Paul and I have a kennel full, we have bought some from Joe K, Dave, Sao...It’s just the kind of dog I like..I will say one or two dogs it did take a few times out before they figured out to slow down a little or they would lose the rabbit where as they could run faster on hare

[WELLS WOODS]

The Mid-West trials are promoting plenty of nose, but also the brains to control the mouth. These dogs run hard & are judged mostly on their tracking ability. They show amazing desire to push the rabbit hard & judges are looking for the hounds doing most of the work & also the faulty hounds that hinder progress. The first hounds eliminated should be the extremely faulty hounds in my opinion; the mouthy, quitting, skirting, overrunning, racing, mute runners, swinging, backtracking, barking through the check,etc.. dogs. Then you can really watch the rest & see what you have & pick up the ones with the least score. The best two or three in each pack usually move on ; sometimes more if the judges so choose. I will agree hunt is overlooked to a degree. The best jump dogs are not given the time to show their ability because of the time restraints to finish the trial before dark. As long as a dog stays busy & shows interest in hunting, they are okay, but it is nice to see those really hard hunting dogs & I'm sure every good judge takes notice of the hard hunters. The hunt in our dogs starts with the breeders & we need to be critical of which dogs we use for breeding.
The bloodlines that have really excelled in the Mid-West through the years have been IFC Trakarab Pacesetter, IFC Mark V's Ace In The Hole, IFC Branko's Heli-Prop, IFC Taylor's Sock It To Me, FTC The Elm's Jigs Maggies Mate, FC Indian Hills Majer, IFC Able's East Coast Trimmer, IFC Haunted Hill Shaker, IFC Branko's Ali-Baba, IFC Branko's Proper Baron, FTC Branko's Jack Of All Trades, FTC Branko's Copper Boy, IFC Melanson's Ranger Dan, FC Turbo Powered By Prop, FC Northway Driver, Eyer's Geneo, FTC Mikerma's Super Dog, IFC Greenwell's Reggie, IFC Maravic's Blue Ninja, FC Rabbit Ridge New York Nick, FC Brent's Prime Time, IFC Greenbay Shooter, IFC Branko's Lumberjack & more recently, IFC Awful Bawlin Viagra, IFC Stoney Hills Gator, IFC Cedar Beck Oliver, FC Townlines Johnny Paycheck, FC Mountain Ash Dino & FC Satsuma Mack. Most of these dogs were bred in hare country & have many famous ancestors. They have proven that they can produce hounds that can excel on cottontail also with proper culling in our Mid-West trials.

[bill (flint river )]

pace setter had no hunt, alot of his pups had no hunt. i had a femal right out of him, she wouldnt hunt for crap, could run when it was up but wouldnt do the work herself.

[WELLS WOODS]

The Pacesetter stuff I've judged & owned had TONS of hunt.

[J&J Run Em Down]

Wow. You say pacesetter had no hunt - I did not know you ever ran with John DeWyse. Plus that is not what John DeWyse has told me or what I've seen. Branko's tall grass hank had a ton of hunt, Branko's slammer had great hunt, Nehi dutches had the most hunt I've ever seen in a dog, plus Matt Shamaniko bred a schnapps female to pacesetter and they had good hunt - over sized but hunting hard. I had some from that line that hunted better then others but they would all go look for a rabbit so to say pacesetter would not hunt or did not produce hunt in his offspring is a false statement. I also know that Clet Shaw would of never breed Fc chippewa red maiden to him if he had no hunt.

[WELLS WOODS]

In no way am I saying the Mid-West dogs or these bloodlines have weak hunt. Most have plenty; some have more than others, but most of the score comes from the chase. A lot of hunt is taken out of dogs by night running in order to get dogs in shape. Rabbits are stirring at night & easier to find; they also run better at night.

[bill (flint river )]

Wow. You say pacesetter had no hunt - I did not know you ever ran with John DeWyse. Plus that is not what John DeWyse has told me or what I've seen. Branko's tall grass hank had a ton of hunt, Branko's slammer had great hunt, Nehi dutches had the most hunt I've ever seen in a dog, plus Matt Shamaniko bred a schnapps female to pacesetter and they had good hunt - over sized but hunting hard. I had some from that line that hunted better then others but they would all go look for a rabbit so to say pacesetter would not hunt or did not produce hunt in his offspring is a false statement. I also know that Clet Shaw would of never breed Fc chippewa red maiden to him if he had no hunt.

see john u are wrong about matt, thats were my female came from matt sold her cause she didnt have hunt. but i did have one directly out of him, and there was alot of guys that didnt like what he was throwing. so i can speak from experience. SHE DIDNT HAVE HUNT. SHE WAS GIVEN AWAY INSTEAD OF ME CULLING HER CAUSE SHE COULD RUN A RABBIT.

[bill (flint river )]

dutchs was not a direct daughter to pace setter, as far as red maiden i dont know, she would have ben old when i knew clarence. but u could have bread bo or skunk to any thing, and if they gave them a 1/4 of there hunt they were gonna be ok.



what cross did red maiden and pace setter produce? i know what red maiden and cap produced. so tell me john.