NKC/ARHA Official Reply

[Bev]

P.S. Todd Morgan are you guys running a special on registering beagles?
Might be time for UKC to put something together for faster style dogs...

Bring all the heat ya got to a UKC trial. You might be surprised. Fast and clean does better than fast and sloppy. A cleaner Little Pack style dog would do well in UKC, or one of those "Type II" progressive Pack dogs, lol.

[Aaron Bartlett]

To all concerned,
Until now I have tried to keep from posting things on the boards about this subject for fear that I would post something that was a "half truth" and be barred from NKC/ARHA. This is why I took it upon myself to make phone calls to some of the leaders of NKC and the PP Division, namely Del Morgan, Ron Ramsey(head of the watchdog committee) and Joyce at the ARHA office. I did this so no one could say I dont have the facts. I have spent several hours on the phone the last two days and personally I am sick to my stomach. I asked all three of these people the same questions and I swear to you that on most of the questions I asked I got 3 different stories! Even the reasons as to why Randy, Dale and Matt got the punishment they received were different! I have alot of information on this subject and it all came from the mouths of these 3 people. I do not have the time right now to post all the things I have been told by these people because I am on my lunch hour here at work but I will be glad to this weekend if anyone wishes to hear about it.
Before I get back to work I would like to leave you with a direct quote from the owner of the NKC/ARHA(Del Morgan) which he said to me on the phone last night.
"IF THERE WAS NEVER ANOTHER ARHA HUNT HELD AGAIN IT WOULD MAKE NO DIFFERENCE TO ME AND WOULD NOT AFFECT MY BOTTOM LINE IN THE LEAST."
I would like to know how this statement makes all the folks out there that trial in the ARHA feel? Is this the type of comments you want the owner of a registry you run in making?
I wish I had not of been in total shock when he stated this or I would asked him why he doesnt sell the registry to someone who cares about it.
Im sorry but I have to go now.....I will post more later.

[bluegrass]

I don't know about the rest of you, but even with all these problems aside, any owner or president of an orginization that would say that my money doesn't mean anything to them and show that much lack of appreciation for the money I WORKED HARD TO EARN, not him, then I would find some other place to compete in the sport that I like so much...I think running is more fun than competing anyway, but when I do want to trial, I think I would rather trial where I was wanted, not where I was taken for granted...Tony

[crewchf]

Now this is the kind of info you can make up your mind on!!!!! No he said she said here.. If this is out of the horses mouth, we got a problem for sure.. Thanks Arron, can't wait to see what else you post..

Crew Chief

PS I ain't sent the check yet everybody!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

I heard it from a friend who, heard it from a friend who, heard it from aother........

A wise man has said, “Before you listen to anything about someone else, before you say anything, you make it pass through these three gates: 1) Is it true?, 2) Is it kind?, 3) Is it necessary?”

[Guest]

1) Is it true? oh yeah, it's true
2) Is it kind? Nope...probably not. Sometimes the truth really does hurt
3) Is it necessary? Absolutely. I don't want to trial where I'm not sure everything is on the up and up.

[MasonsBeagles]

I too have waited to hear the response from the NKC/ARHA to make a final decision. I sent Mr. Morgan an email asking two simple questions with no response. I assumed that the reason was that he is a busy man. The response yesterday from Mr. Morgan was good up until the parts where he offered to make a phone call to the other organizations and told anyone who didnt like what happened to try another registry. As I have stated before I do not know anyone of the individuals involved nor do I have anything to do with the what happens. What has concerned me was two simple things.

1)Person being accused was allowed to chair and participate in the hearing.
2) What rule was broken to justify the bans.

As far as someone being wrongfully accused it happens all over. Its not right and shouldnt happen, but it does and will continue. If a person is going to hold a high ranking position then they might as well be thicker skinned and be well aware that any moves that they make will be scrutinized. It is also my belief that any high ranking official participating in the trials does so not as the official but as a regular trialer. Noone should be givin special treatment. This is the U.S.A. and people are allowed to speak their minds weither others agree with it or not. Mr. Morgan has everyright to ban anyone he wishes and make any decisions that he wishes concerning this organization. If you dont agree with his decisions dont put money in his pocket. Which is what I intend to stop doing.

It saddens me to say but I will never again compete, attend or promote the NKC organization until the mindset of the ownership changes. I definately wont effect the bottom line as I am a small kennel so I am sure their will be no sleep lost over this decision.

Mr. Morgan is correct that participating in trials is a priveledge and not a right. I agree 100%. It is also a priveledge for someone to donate their time and monies for an organization that really offers nothing in return and benefits the ownership solely. If trials dont affect the bottom line then why did you buy the organization. If people dont trial then they wont register their hounds.

It is true that this does hurt the trialers participating. My wife and I have met some tremendous people while attending the trials. It is ashame that an owner of such an organization does not love it like the people who participate in it.

Enough said. Hello UKC, AKC and PKC. I have some extra money freed up.lol

Sincerely,

William Mason
Derby City Kennels

[Guest]

All this sounds like a mess. I don't run NKC/AHRA and it sounds like I don't want to. I do how ever run alot Of UKC hunts,I run alot with a guy that runs SP in the AHRA and his hounds are like mine fast and clean. I will invite anyone who is not satifyed to trial in another registry,it don't have to be UKC but try another. The UKC has a exceptional Beagle program that Todd Morgan has helped emencely and he works hard to keep it growing-and he is a fair man. However I also hope the AHRA gets this problem settled and the registry does well,I hope all registrys do well for the sake of the breed and the hunters. I trial to improve my hunting pack,not to say I won a field trial(it is nice to win though,lol). Good luck hope it works out for the best.

[Emery]

Well, after spending a lengthy period of time reading and re-reading everything... Stony (who is someone that I trust) made it just about as clear as possible for me to make a decision. No more NKC anything for me. My papers are in the trash and I am sorry that I ever wasted my money and other's too by registering my litters with NKC. I have a nice little male that I can run in the AKC derbies and will get him UKC registered as well. I guess I will be making some trips to St Louis for some UKC trials too.

Emery

[Guest]

Very good post by a very good guy, Bet it still wont get their attention tho, but then again they dont care.

I'd sure like to hear some reply's from Mace on all these accusations.

Heres the post.
Conf: Progressive Pack Division
From: Terry Sudduth floy2838@bellsouth.net
Date: Friday, August 27, 2004 07:40 AM

OK,Here I go running my mouth,when I should keep it shut,but I feel like NKC has done some of My PP Freinds wrong.I do not know what went on at CIBC,BECAUSE I was not there,but I do Know that Randy,Dale,and Matt,are some of the honest People that was in PP.

Let me say that most of the Upper Management of pp,are real nice Men,Ron Ramzey is one of the most honest judge that I have ever has judged My hound,Jim byram,and Eddie Mitchell,are outstanding Men.

Mace is another story as for honesty goes,I do know that another Friend of Mine almost got His b@lls nailed to the wall for something He said She said B@llsh@t supposedly said about Mace,and the hole state of Indiana,that as for as i know He never said,and that got dropped.

Mace do not take me wrong,You have never done anything to me that I know of,except maybe turn a couple of My Friends against Me,and the reason I say that is because they want hardly talk to Me anymore after they started hanging With You,I have heard through the grapevine some things that You said,but I am not, one to let rumors get to Me,but I really noticed a different s in the way they act toward Me when I ran against You for the Chairman of Board,but that is ok.

Mace,I was in a cast with you at the east Reg.and the Judge told the Handlers to talk to the Hounds to get them to hunt,and I knew that was wrong,and just wanted to see what you would do,and You did just what the judge said along with the rest of us,I was going to protest that cast, because of that,but You won,and I wanted to see what You would do ,and You did nothing,and I can prove this,also You Judged the winners pack along with Ron at the Evert Morgan(Grands),and I am not saying That u cheated,but It sure did look bad,because the hole gallery knew what Hound won that cast,even the other Judge could not beleave the outcome after the scorecard was read,and You had the card in your hand the hole time the cast was being Judged,but again that is just speculation.

Mace,I am not doing this to hurt You,but I feel Yall did some of My friends wrong for saying what was
on there mind,Yall may want to band me ,but that is ok,because after this Year I am pulling out of PP,and just will run My hounds,and Rabbit Hunt,until we get another Chairman,

If You want to band Me do it,but you can not touch My Hounds,because I put all My Hounds in Chris Sudduths name,and He does not Know what is going on,and I have sold Hammer.

Sorry
Terry

[pztrailman]

Here are a couple more posts.

Topic: Official NKC/ARHA PP Reply (4 of 5), Read 30 times
Conf: Progressive Pack Division
From: Mace Clark mclark537@aol.com
Date: Friday, August 27, 2004 05:33 PM

Dear Terry:

I do happen to agree with a couple of things that you said in your post. One, we do have a group of top notch people serving on the PP Executive Board. Two, I have never done anything to hurt you. And three, you were not at the CIBC field trials and you have no idea of the facts which led Del Morgan to ban certain individuals from competition. A number of posts which will provide a clear statement of the facts which led to those bans will be appearing on the boards within the next few days.

With respect to the mud you chose to sling about the East Regional I did recognize that certain PP rules concerning whether a field judge could ask the handlers to hunt their hounds in a cast were being interpreted differently in different regions of the U.S. That is why immediately after that hunt I instructed the Watchdog Committee to make an official interpretation of those rules. Of course you can read their interpretation of those rules along with everyone else if you like. If you felt that strongly about the issue then you should have filed a protest. . . but of course you didn't. Was that the cast where our Sassafrass dog beat your dog in the big hillside briar patch?

Next, you have chosen to sling mud about a cast which happened almost a year ago in the Everett Morgan Classic. Again, if you didn't like the result you should have filed a protest . . but of course you didn't. First of all I can't tell you who even had hounds in that cast. Did you have a hound in there? As many casts as you have run over the years I would have thought that you would have learned the lesson by now that you can't judge a cast from the road. Of course, whatever dog it was that had the most points won the cast. I don't care who owned the dog.

Am I surprised that you would come on the Q&A board and attack me? No, not really. Of course you chose to viciously attack the former Chairman, Billy Fielder, on this board because he took a firm stand that we must get back to stricter judging of PP hounds by the rules. It is no secrete that I too strongly encourage field judges to judge strictly by the PP rules. Now you chose to attack me just as you attacked Billy Fielder before me. Are you that worried about having the judges judge your hounds strictly by the rules? If you are then your decision not to run PP anymore is probably the best thing. I will encourge strict enforcement of PP rules so long as I am involved in this Division. Of course, you made it clear to me that you do not like to see the PP minus rules enforced when you told me a story a couple of years ago, a month or so after you had judged the PP Runoffs. You said that you had intentionally left a hound on the ground in the Runoffs which belonged to "a good friend of yours", as you have referred to him here, in spite of the fact that that man's hound did in fact have many more than three minuses on it.

Terry, you have been very lucky and very blessed with success in the Progressive Pack Division. Posts such as this only serve to make you look bad. I look forward to seeing you and your family at the next hunt.

Sincerely yours,
Mace Clark






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Topic: Official NKC/ARHA PP Reply (5 of 5), Read 15 times
Conf: Progressive Pack Division
From: Randy Beavers ssrb1986@aol.com
Date: Friday, August 27, 2004 06:05 PM

Mace wrote "I will encourge strict enforcement of PP rules so long as I am involved in this Division. Of course, you made it clear to me that you do not like to see the PP minus rules enforced when you told me a story a couple of years ago, a month or so after you had judged the PP Runoffs. You said that you had intentionally left a hound on the ground in the Runoffs which belonged to "a good friend of yours", as you have referred to him here, in spite of the fact that that man's hound did in fact have many more than three minuses on it."


I am not trying to pick on anyone here, but once again, I see a pattern where people claim they would tell, but its years later and we're just finding out! Just like the deal with Matt. 1 1/2 years later. Explain away. I am done. You all have fun.

I would like to know of one time where you all thought someone cheated and did something about it at that time, other than when honest people like Shannon, myself and others told on MY OWN FRIENDS! I thought this was about being honest and keeping each other honest. If one knew something was happening 2 years ago they should have spoken up then, just like you say Terry should have.

Peace all. Out!

Have a good weekend.

[Camp Springs Kennels]

After looking into all that has been said, I am not going to renew my subscription with the ARHA, and will run exclusively in AKC voiding any further cotact with ARHA/NKC trials. Might even give the UKC boys a try. Its a shame how far that organization"NKC" has fallen since Everett Morgan was owner.

[D Frazier]

I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THE TIME TO POST SOME FACTS ABOUT THE MEETING HELD ON AUGUST 14TH. BEFORE I DO THAT, LET ME GIVE YOU A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON MY PARTICIPATION IN ARHA PROGRESSIVE PACK. I STARTED RUNNING ARHA PP IN 1993. I HAVE SERVED ON THE WATCH DOG COMMITTEE UNDER THREE DIFFERENT CHAIRMEN - TOMMY VINCENT, BILLY FIELDER AND MACE CLARK. ALL WERE HARD WORKING, HONEST MEN.

THE MEETING ON AUGUST 14TH WAS REQUESTED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE ARHA. HE ASKED THAT RANDY, DEL AND MATT ATTEND, AND ANYONE THAT WANTED TO SPEAK ON THIS ISSUE WAS ALSO INVITED. HE ALSO ASKED THE WATCH DOG COMMITTEE, MACE CLARK AND ME TO ATTEND (SINCE I WAS AT ALL FOUR HUNTS HELD AT THE CENTRAL INDIANA BEAGLE CLUB THIS YEAR).

THE FIRST FACT THAT NEEDS TO BE CLEARED UP WAS THAT MACE CLARK WAS NOT THE CHAIRMAN OF THIS MEETING. THE ARHA PRESIDENT WAS THE CHAIRMAN OF THIS MEETING. EVERYONE THERE HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK THREE OR FOUR TIMES. THE MEETING LASTED OVER TWO HOURS. ABOUT HALF WAY THROUGH THE MEETING, RANDY'S WIFE STOOD UP AND STARTED YELLING ACROSS THE ROOM, I AM NOT SURE WHO SHE WAS YELLING, BUT I BELIVE IT WAS JOHN BOILER. AT THIS POINT RANDY STOOD UP AND SAID "LET'S GET THE
F--- OUT OF HERE, AND F--- ALL THESE GUYS". UP TO THIS POINT NO ONE HAD RAISED THEIR VOICE OR USED ABUSIVE LANGUAGE.

ABOUT TWENTY MINUTES LATER RANDY RETURNED TO HIS CHAIR UNTIL THE MEETING WAS OVER.

ALL OF THE PEOPLE AT THIS MEETING STATED THEY DID NOT THINK THERE WAS ANY BUDDY JUDING OR THAT MACE CLARK DID ANYTHING WRONG. THEY DID SAY THEY THOUGHT THE JUDGE WAS INEXPERIENCED, BUT WAS HONEST.

DURING THE HUNTS AT CIBC I ASKED OTHER JUDGES WHO HAD JUST COME BACK FROM HANDLING THEIR DOGS IF THEY THOUGHT THERE WAS ANY BUDDY JUDGING GOING ON. THE RESPONSE WAS 100% NO. ONE JUDGE SAID THAT HE THOUGH HE HAD AN INEXPERIENCED JUDGE WHO HAD SOME TOUGH CALLS TO MAKE THAT COULD HAVE WENT EITHER WAY. BUT HE FELT THE JUDGE WAS HONEST. ALL THE JUDGES STATED THAT THEY THOUGHT THE BEST DOG WON THE CAST.

RANDY SAID THAT HE DID NOT SCRATCH HIS DOG BECAUSE OF WHO THE JUDGE WAS. THIS IS A LIE. I WAS STANDING AT THE CASTING STAKE AND RANDY WAS THERE WITH HIS DOG AND SOMEONE ACROSS THE PARKING LOT WAS ASKING FOR HIS OTHER DOG THAT WAS ALSO GOING OUT TO RUN. RANDY YELLED "WHO IS THE JUDGE", WHEN HE WAS TOLD WHO THE JUDGE WAS HE YELLED "SCRATCH MY DOG".

RANDY HAS STATED ON THIS BOARD THAT MACE CLARK CHAIRED THIS MEETING, AND THAT HE WAS BANNED BY MACE CLARK. THIS IS A LIE. THE DECISION WAS MADE BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE ARHA AFTER CONSULTATION WITH THE WATCH DOG COMMITTEE. I SUPPORT THIS DECISION 100%.

AT THIS MEETING DEL MORGAN AND RON RAMSEY STATED THAT THEY HAD RECEIVED NUMEROUS PHONE CALLS FROM PEOPLE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY WHO HAD TOLD THEM THAT RANDY AND DEL WERE ACCUSING MACE CLARK OF CHEATING. THIS IS THE TYPE OF ACTION THAT DOES NOT PROMOTE THE ARHA, BUT DESTROYS IT.

IN MY ELEVEN YEARS OF PARTICIPATING IN THE ARHA, I HAVE MADE ALOT OF FRIENDS, AND I CONSIDER MACE CLARK ONE OF THE MOST HONEST PERSONS I HAVE MET, AND WILL ALWAYS CONSIDER HIM MY FRIEND. I INTEND TO CONTINUE RUN PP TRIALS, AND HOPEFULLY MAKE MORE FRIENDS. I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU AT A TRIAL SOMEWHERE SOON.

THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ THIS,
DAVE FRAZIER

[Bev]

Dave, thank you for your contribution, but I am confused as to why this whole thing is being spun about whether or not Mace cheats. That is not the issue here. The issue is why did Mace block a club meeting? Why couldn't the club President have a copy of the bylaws or a complete list of the membership? There's suppose to be a set of bylaws for this club, Mace supposedly has them, but noone can seem the get their hands on a copy. We don't even know who belongs to the club anymore because noone has been provided a copy of the membership - even when it was asked for.

At the meeting, why wasn't Mace made to answer the questions directed to him in regards to the bylaws and the club membership list?

Again, the accusations of Mace cheating IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE. All of you keep dancing around this. The issue is WHY COULDN'T THE CLUB HAVE A MEETING to discuss those accusations and discuss the possible steps to prevent future accusations? What's so hard about that?

[Dave Frazier]

please disregard first posting, my typing skills leave alot to be desired.