Deformities & More...

SouthernBeagles · Post by **SouthernBeagles** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:20 am

Larry G wrote: Well, let's say I had a male, and a lady down the street had a female of the same breed, so we let them mate. There was a defective pup in the litter. Are you and SB saying neither of those dogs should ever be bred again. or just not to each other?

Well, I really DID have a male and really DID have some females that DID have a defective pup or two......... They were ALL removed from the breeding program........... This is the responsible thing to do. It isn't the popular thing to do but it is the right thing. This does NOT MEAN those dogs weren't good rabbit dogs and couldn't be hunted (actually they could run the snot out of a rabbit) BUT they were not genetically fit for breeding because they threw a SERIOUS genetic fault. There are a lot of good if not better rabbit dogs that don't carry the gene for it so why would anyone perpetuate it knowingly??

As for your vet, if HE TOLD YOU it was OK to breed your bitch with TWO hernias, I would love to know his name and contact info. He sounds like he let someone else take his tests at vet school. There is a vet here in town the same way (he can give a shot but that's about all he is good for).........I drive right past him when something is wrong to go to another vet that has a clue.

TC · Post by TC » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:24 am

ok Question and Senario here

have a bitch that 1st breeding great pups no problems... 7 healthy pups
Second breeding Different stud 7 pups again 2 had overbites and one a hernia.
third breeding 7 pups different Stud BUT same lines
Again 7 pups all healthy..
so buy What you are Saying SB is that after the Second litter we should have NEVER bred her again??????
YOU know the bitch and YOU know 3 dogs from the last litter......OH two did go OVERSIZE and there has been One pup from her daughter go Over
I understand What you are saying in a way.
But the way you are saying it is that we should never have bred her again Correct?
How many above average Dogs do you feel could have been lost by Not breeding the bitch again..
Oh and So far NONE of her OFFSpring have shown or produced any problems. at this time she is a GGrandame

SouthernBeagles · Post by **SouthernBeagles** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:46 am

Can an overbite be life threatening??? An inguinal hernia sure can.

Although I will not breed to a dog with a bad bite, I don't consider a bad bite in the same catigory as an inguinal hernia or a "Serious genetic fault". I also won't breed to a dog with bowed legs.......never heard of a dog dieing from bowed legs.

Where was the hernia on the pup???? This could be the deal breaker for me. If it was on the belly button.........no big deal. If it was down on the lower stomach where the leg meets the belly (groin area) then No, I would not have bred her again.

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:14 am

yellowdog wrote:also look what happened to vansickle.... ...i bet his family tree looks like a telephone pole....no branches...lmao...now we are even

Id say Danny's family Tree looks more like a Marshmallow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TC · Post by TC » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:45 am

Well I guess we have just Been REAL lucky then and No other dog in the breedings carried the gene!! We have had NO other instances in 5 Known generations from this line..
None of the pups Dottie or Chance have thrown or sired have shown Any genetic defects so far and None of the pups from thier pups have either..

LUCK? or Selective breeding?

Larry G · Post by **Larry G** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:31 am

Ryan wrote:I'm not sure what I would do, thats not really enough info,but I probably wouldn't risk it again.

As far as the way you describe pricing pups,the example you have is a lame excuse. IF you feel the dog will be mis-treated don't let it go to a home like that, period.

A couple is driving down from DC to get one, another couple from Ala., one is going to a local doctor and his wife. I feel they will be cared for pretty well. I had no say in what my partner did.... well I said a few things but it didn't make any difference. I also flatly refused to sell one to a lady that was going to keep it in a small crate all day while she was at work. See Ryan, some people just don't need a dog because they either don't have the means or the sense to take care of it.

Now, are the high priced dogs any better than the cheapies? Hell no, a dog is just a dog no matter where you get it or how much you pay.

Larry G · Post by **Larry G** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:36 am

SouthernBeagles wrote:
Larry G wrote: Well, let's say I had a male, and a lady down the street had a female of the same breed, so we let them mate. There was a defective pup in the litter. Are you and SB saying neither of those dogs should ever be bred again. or just not to each other?
Well, I really DID have a male and really DID have some females that DID have a defective pup or two......... They were ALL removed from the breeding program........... This is the responsible thing to do. It isn't the popular thing to do but it is the right thing. This does NOT MEAN those dogs weren't good rabbit dogs and couldn't be hunted (actually they could run the snot out of a rabbit) BUT they were not genetically fit for breeding because they threw a SERIOUS genetic fault. There are a lot of good if not better rabbit dogs that don't carry the gene for it so why would anyone perpetuate it knowingly??

As for your vet, if HE TOLD YOU it was OK to breed your bitch with TWO hernias, I would love to know his name and contact info. He sounds like he let someone else take his tests at vet school. There is a vet here in town the same way (he can give a shot but that's about all he is good for).........I drive right past him when something is wrong to go to another vet that has a clue.

Dr. Browning
Cherryville Animal Hospital
Cherryville, NC

He is the best vet around bar none. He needs your approval like I need another hole in my head.

Larry G · Post by **Larry G** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:47 am

mike crabtree wrote:
yellowdog wrote:also look what happened to vansickle.... ...i bet his family tree looks like a telephone pole....no branches...lmao...now we are even

Id say Danny's family Tree looks more like a Marshmallow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then for Heaven's sake don't breed to him... and you might oughtta get him neutered...

yellowdog · Post by **yellowdog** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:18 am

J.C. Blair wrote:
yellowdog wrote:also look what happened to vansickle.... ...i bet his family tree looks like a telephone pole....no branches...lmao...now we are even
I think Danny and Yeller are brothers from a different mother!

blair if i was standing next to vansickle we would look like the number 10....lol

beagle crazy · Post by **beagle crazy** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:08 am

Pups can be sold by ANY price the breeder puts on them--it's up to the breeder......BUT IT IS ALSO UP TO THE BREEDER TO DECIDE TO SELL OR NOT. My pups were priced at $200 and I sold a some, but I also gave some away to kids who couldn't afford them (upon permission from the parents). I also refused to sell to a particular individual at any price!! I knew he/she wouldn't care for the dog properly, so NO SALE. Period.

My last litter produced 5 pups. All 5 were healthy as could be, strong little fellas---no obvious faults/defects, etc... except for 1 had an overbite. A pretty bad overbite. Neither parent had an overbite and none of the 4 siblings did either. And I haven't heard about others from these lines with overbites. But this pup was sold as a pet and will not be bred. In my opinion, that was the right thing to do.

There's no need to fight and argue. Express your opinion and move on. We're here to learn. And have a little fun. But not to fight and argue and cause disention among the ranks. JMO

Larry G · Post by **Larry G** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:48 am

Yeah, you're right. And I mighta done some bad things breedin dogs, sorry about that, but I am 100% certain I am not responsible for Danny's finger. But I hear a lot of people would like to give him the finger. What happened to ol' Johnny Ringo, anyway, he get a life? I tried to but it didn't work for me.

TC · Post by TC » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:05 pm

Oh And Sothern it WAS an Umbilical hernia

My point is A person CAN get lucky but with proper planning and Selective Breeding your Chances are MUCH BETTER!!!!

Oh And beagle Crazy This has been the norm For some of us for a LONG time not arguing just constructive banter!!!!!

Stop and think about it Some folks can Learn A LOT from Our Heavy Discussions...

Oh And For those that need to Know or even if they dont Want to know
I WLL NOT SELL A DOG FOR UNDER $250.00 I Wll give em away First..
I have sold Dogs from Over a grand down...
WHY Because I can!!!!

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:26 pm

WHY Because I can!!!!

you dirty dog you!

bill (flint river ) · Post by **bill (flint river )** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:25 pm

SouthernBeagles wrote:Can an overbite be life threatening??? An inguinal hernia sure can.

Although I will not breed to a dog with a bad bite, I don't consider a bad bite in the same catigory as an inguinal hernia or a "Serious genetic fault". I also won't breed to a dog with bowed legs.......never heard of a dog dieing from bowed legs.

Where was the hernia on the pup???? This could be the deal breaker for me. If it was on the belly button.........no big deal. If it was down on the lower stomach where the leg meets the belly (groin area) then No, I would not have bred her again.

i wouldnt even waist your breath, guys are going to breed stuff. i wont period. but it is good to know, save me from considering ever buying a pup from them.

bill (flint river ) · Post by **bill (flint river )** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:28 pm

i dealt with this in the 90's larry and if your vet told u to breed her then he not as good as u say, i had a female at 3 vets and all 3 said there is a chance it will carrie and she shouldnt breed. also the risk of her dieing was alot higher. But hey u do what works for u. my dumb ass hunter ways will stick to what works for me!!!!!