I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THE TIME TO POST SOME FACTS ABOUT THE MEETING HELD ON AUGUST 14TH. BEFORE I DO THAT, LET ME GIVE YOU A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON MY PARTICIPATION IN ARHA PROGRESSIVE PACK. I STARTED RUNNING ARHA PP IN 1993. I HAVE SERVED ON THE EXECUTIVE BOARD UNDER THREE DIFFERENT CHAIRMEN - TOMMY VINCENT, BILLY FIELDER AND MACE CLARK. ALL WERE HARD WORKING, HONEST MEN.
THE MEETING ON AUGUST 14TH WAS REQUESTED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE ARHA. HE ASKED THAT RANDY, DEL AND MATT ATTEND, AND ANYONE THAT WANTED TO SPEAK ON THIS ISSUE WAS ALSO INVITED. HE ALSO ASKED THE WATCH DOG COMMITTEE, MACE CLARK AND ME TO ATTEND (SINCE I WAS AT ALL FOUR HUNTS HELD AT THE CENTRAL INDIANA BEAGLE CLUB THIS YEAR).
THE FIRST FACT THAT NEEDS TO BE CLEARED UP WAS THAT MACE CLARK WAS NOT THE CHAIRMAN OF THIS MEETING. THE ARHA PRESIDENT WAS THE CHAIRMAN OF THIS MEETING. EVERYONE THERE HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK THREE OR FOUR TIMES. THE MEETING LASTED OVER TWO HOURS. ABOUT HALF WAY THROUGH THE MEETING, RANDY'S WIFE STOOD UP AND STARTED YELLING ACROSS THE ROOM, I AM NOT SURE WHO SHE WAS YELLING AT, BUT I BELIVE IT WAS JOHN BOILER. AT THIS POINT RANDY STOOD UP AND SAID "LET'S GET THE
F--- OUT OF HERE, AND F--- ALL THESE GUYS". UP TO THIS POINT NO ONE HAD RAISED THEIR VOICE OR USED ABUSIVE LANGUAGE.
ABOUT TWENTY MINUTES LATER RANDY RETURNED TO HIS CHAIR UNTIL THE MEETING WAS OVER.
ALL OF THE PEOPLE AT THIS MEETING STATED THEY DID NOT THINK THERE WAS ANY BUDDY JUDGING OR THAT MACE CLARK DID ANYTHING WRONG. THEY DID SAY THEY THOUGHT THE JUDGE WAS INEXPERIENCED, BUT WAS HONEST.
DURING THE HUNTS AT CIBC I ASKED OTHER JUDGES WHO HAD JUST COME BACK FROM HANDLING THEIR DOGS IF THEY THOUGHT THERE WAS ANY BUDDY JUDGING GOING ON. THE RESPONSE WAS 100% NO. ONE JUDGE SAID THAT HE THOUGH HE HAD AN INEXPERIENCED JUDGE WHO HAD SOME TOUGH CALLS TO MAKE THAT COULD HAVE WENT EITHER WAY. BUT HE FELT THE JUDGE WAS HONEST. ALL THE JUDGES STATED THAT THEY THOUGHT THE BEST DOG WON THE CAST.
RANDY SAID THAT HE DID NOT SCRATCH HIS DOG BECAUSE OF WHO THE JUDGE WAS. THIS IS A LIE. I WAS STANDING AT THE CASTING STAKE AND RANDY WAS THERE WITH HIS DOG AND SOMEONE ACROSS THE PARKING LOT WAS ASKING FOR HIS OTHER DOG THAT WAS ALSO GOING OUT TO RUN. RANDY YELLED "WHO IS THE JUDGE", WHEN HE WAS TOLD WHO THE JUDGE WAS HE YELLED "SCRATCH MY DOG".
RANDY HAS STATED ON THIS BOARD THAT MACE CLARK CHAIRED THIS MEETING, AND THAT HE WAS BANNED BY MACE CLARK. THIS IS A LIE. THE DECISION WAS MADE BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE ARHA AFTER CONSULTATION WITH THE WATCH DOG COMMITTEE. I SUPPORT THIS DECISION 100%.
AT THIS MEETING DEL MORGAN AND RON RAMSEY STATED THAT THEY HAD RECEIVED NUMEROUS PHONE CALLS FROM PEOPLE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY WHO HAD TOLD THEM THAT RANDY AND DEL WERE ACCUSING MACE CLARK OF CHEATING. THIS IS THE TYPE OF ACTION THAT DOES NOT PROMOTE THE ARHA, BUT DESTROYS IT.
IN MY ELEVEN YEARS OF PARTICIPATING IN THE ARHA, I HAVE MADE ALOT OF FRIENDS, AND I CONSIDER MACE CLARK ONE OF THE MOST HONEST PERSONS I HAVE MET, AND WILL ALWAYS CONSIDER HIM MY FRIEND. I INTEND TO CONTINUE RUN PP TRIALS, AND HOPEFULLY MAKE MORE FRIENDS. I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU AT A TRIAL SOMEWHERE SOON.
THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ THIS,
DAVE FRAZIER[/quote]
NKC/ARHA Official Reply
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
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Guest
Maybe we should disregard any of your post because it is a half truth, How bout Mace taking his dog to a training pen to get it certified, Is this the same guy that is 100% honest, how many deer has that Sassafrass dog run that didnt get turned into ARHA, Or Mace scratched it from the hunt to keep it from getting turned in.
Maybe running for hound of the year ought to be eliminated, seems it is bringing the worst out in honest people.
Come to think of it your honesty and my honesty is 2 different honesties.
I hope everyone goes to John Bollers benefit hunt, for John.
But, I think everyone needs to make a statement after that hunt, see if Del really meant what he said about he didnt care if they ever even had another hunt.
Hey Del if it is all that bad why not sell out, give it to someone who gives a Sh&!, you dont!!!!!!!
Maybe running for hound of the year ought to be eliminated, seems it is bringing the worst out in honest people.
Come to think of it your honesty and my honesty is 2 different honesties.
I hope everyone goes to John Bollers benefit hunt, for John.
But, I think everyone needs to make a statement after that hunt, see if Del really meant what he said about he didnt care if they ever even had another hunt.
Hey Del if it is all that bad why not sell out, give it to someone who gives a Sh&!, you dont!!!!!!!
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MDH68
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beaglehandler
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:15 pm
- Location: Indianapolis IN
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New York Hillbilly
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:54 pm
- Location: Soldotna, Alaska
I have been reading along since the start of this and now here are a few of my thoughts on the topic. It is strange how this reminds me of the turmoil that surrounded a friend of mine in an ARHA format that resulted in hard feelings, harsh words and eventually people fading into the sunset after devoting much time, energy, money and life to that endeavor. I also find it strange that the state of INDIANA was home to folks involved in that situation. It must be something in the water down there! 
Oh and the comment of "YANKS" being "whiners" was hysterical to me as I view everyone south of Pennslyvania (sp?) as a "Reb" (spoken in a loving respected way). I did some trialing in PP and LP and did have some degree of success in the limited trialing I did do and on a whole I met wonderful people who opened their homes and hearts to me and my son and treated us fairly. A couple of times I did fall prey to some judges who "blew" calls and cost me a chance to win, once after I drove 16 hours to get to the hunt. HUM!!! Come to think of it that was in INDIANA! 
A couple of those times the judge then came to me after the hunt and appologized. Now for a news flash...I did however meet a few REAL STINKERS who were nasty, on ego trips and were out to win at all costs in my opinion and made rude comments, snide remarks to me and when they judged my hounds made sure my were picked up fast. These same judges were also hound owners who had hounds of their own in the hunt that were being handled by others for them. HUM!!! Why did mine get picked up? These same hounds of mine were the ones by the way with the trophies that are sitting on the shelf in front of me as I type. I could have raised a stink but when you are an "OUT OF TOWNER" and traveling with a young son it is better and possibly safer to take the high road and that is precisely what I did. I refused to allow the creepy behavior of a goof here and there to taint my feelings towards the organization as a whole or to ruin the total experience. The ARHA and the people of it I think are or I should say were (I have not trialed in years) for the most part class acts but there is bound to be some real "jerks" out there and I know the same applies to not only all the other registeries but also in all other groups of "people". I have seen AKC hounds that cannot run their own rabbits (I KNOW FOR FACT) that have several places in Lic. Trials. I have seen with my own eyes packs of hounds that run "GHOST RABBITS" and stay down when other hounds who really run the rabbit get picked up. I have seen instances where groups of handlers walk away shaking their heads in disbelief after watching some casts of hounds and the ones that move on to finishers packs. I have had both good experiences with AKC judges and a couple of real awful ones. My point here is that there is good and bad I believe in them all. ARHA is not some outlaw registery as far as I am concerned and I refuse to believe that it condones cheating anymore than I believe any of the other registeries do. That is not to say that such problems do not exist, come to the surface and require being dealt with. I cannot speak to UKC because I have no experience in that format. I also saw it mentioned in an earlier post that AKC Derby trials have breed inspectors or something to that effect, and unless I misinterpreted the post the inference was that you could run a non registered AKC hound. I do not believe this to be true. I think at a minimum you must have the hounds litter papers to run it and if the hound places you have 30 days to get it registered. I could be wrong on this point but do not believe that I am. ARHA trials are held in the wild so to speak where as AKC trials are held in pens, and from my perspective ARHA hounds promotes more of a hunting hound. I liked the ARHA for that reason. I think there is nothing to be gained at this point in continuing to regurgitate the same old information and only serves to widen the gap between the parties involved. If it is everyones true intention to fix what is broken cooler heads must prevail. There is a a phenomenon called "group think" where everyone tends to jump on the bandwagon and act in ways they might not normally. This can be percieved as a mob mentality and nobody can feel safe enough to come together in such a state. It sounds to me like a lot of hurt feelings and distrust here and perhaps a cooling off period is necessary. If the goal is to show who is tougher, who can bring who to their knees or to detroy each other I would say continue on the current path, but if the goal is to sort this thing out I would say someone needs to extend the olive branch. It is time for someone to take the high road in this situation even though it might be rocky and an uncomfortable ride. Taking the low road will lead no where in my opinion! 
I wish you all the best.
Peace,
Oh and the comment of "YANKS" being "whiners" was hysterical to me as I view everyone south of Pennslyvania (sp?) as a "Reb" (spoken in a loving respected way). I did some trialing in PP and LP and did have some degree of success in the limited trialing I did do and on a whole I met wonderful people who opened their homes and hearts to me and my son and treated us fairly. A couple of times I did fall prey to some judges who "blew" calls and cost me a chance to win, once after I drove 16 hours to get to the hunt. HUM!!! Come to think of it that was in INDIANA! A couple of those times the judge then came to me after the hunt and appologized. Now for a news flash...I did however meet a few REAL STINKERS who were nasty, on ego trips and were out to win at all costs in my opinion and made rude comments, snide remarks to me and when they judged my hounds made sure my were picked up fast. These same judges were also hound owners who had hounds of their own in the hunt that were being handled by others for them. HUM!!! Why did mine get picked up? These same hounds of mine were the ones by the way with the trophies that are sitting on the shelf in front of me as I type. I could have raised a stink but when you are an "OUT OF TOWNER" and traveling with a young son it is better and possibly safer to take the high road and that is precisely what I did. I refused to allow the creepy behavior of a goof here and there to taint my feelings towards the organization as a whole or to ruin the total experience. The ARHA and the people of it I think are or I should say were (I have not trialed in years) for the most part class acts but there is bound to be some real "jerks" out there and I know the same applies to not only all the other registeries but also in all other groups of "people". I have seen AKC hounds that cannot run their own rabbits (I KNOW FOR FACT) that have several places in Lic. Trials. I have seen with my own eyes packs of hounds that run "GHOST RABBITS" and stay down when other hounds who really run the rabbit get picked up. I have seen instances where groups of handlers walk away shaking their heads in disbelief after watching some casts of hounds and the ones that move on to finishers packs. I have had both good experiences with AKC judges and a couple of real awful ones. My point here is that there is good and bad I believe in them all. ARHA is not some outlaw registery as far as I am concerned and I refuse to believe that it condones cheating anymore than I believe any of the other registeries do. That is not to say that such problems do not exist, come to the surface and require being dealt with. I cannot speak to UKC because I have no experience in that format. I also saw it mentioned in an earlier post that AKC Derby trials have breed inspectors or something to that effect, and unless I misinterpreted the post the inference was that you could run a non registered AKC hound. I do not believe this to be true. I think at a minimum you must have the hounds litter papers to run it and if the hound places you have 30 days to get it registered. I could be wrong on this point but do not believe that I am. ARHA trials are held in the wild so to speak where as AKC trials are held in pens, and from my perspective ARHA hounds promotes more of a hunting hound. I liked the ARHA for that reason. I think there is nothing to be gained at this point in continuing to regurgitate the same old information and only serves to widen the gap between the parties involved. If it is everyones true intention to fix what is broken cooler heads must prevail. There is a a phenomenon called "group think" where everyone tends to jump on the bandwagon and act in ways they might not normally. This can be percieved as a mob mentality and nobody can feel safe enough to come together in such a state. It sounds to me like a lot of hurt feelings and distrust here and perhaps a cooling off period is necessary. If the goal is to show who is tougher, who can bring who to their knees or to detroy each other I would say continue on the current path, but if the goal is to sort this thing out I would say someone needs to extend the olive branch. It is time for someone to take the high road in this situation even though it might be rocky and an uncomfortable ride. Taking the low road will lead no where in my opinion! I wish you all the best.Peace,
Last edited by New York Hillbilly on Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
When my life on earth is ended....this is all I'm gonna say...Lord I've been a hard working pilgrim on the way!
Dave, Listen here. I havnt told lies on you, dont you tell them on me! All them lies spun is what started all this. You guys need to get your stories together. I told these people from day 1 I told you all to F*CK OFF, and I meant it. You're sounding like Mace now! Tell the people the whole story if you're gonna tell the part about me scratching my dog! You are the dishonest ones in this.RANDY SAID THAT HE DID NOT SCRATCH HIS DOG BECAUSE OF WHO THE JUDGE WAS. THIS IS A LIE. I WAS STANDING AT THE CASTING STAKE AND RANDY WAS THERE WITH HIS DOG AND SOMEONE ACROSS THE PARKING LOT WAS ASKING FOR HIS OTHER DOG THAT WAS ALSO GOING OUT TO RUN. RANDY YELLED "WHO IS THE JUDGE", WHEN HE WAS TOLD WHO THE JUDGE WAS HE YELLED "SCRATCH MY DOG".
Tell the part about dinner where your faithful trialing buddy from Michigan said "A dog with any branko dont belong in PP , PERIOD"..............did you forget that part? And Maces response, instead of defending the people by the rule book he instead chose to say........"well I can pick them out at the casting pole from the spade on their head". Where were all you grand sportsmen that night?????? I was the only one to stand up to them that night, and at the time I didnt own any Branko dogs.
On that day I asked if he was judging because that was to send a message to Mace........obviously none of you got it! Why send my dog out in a cast that has an individual running in it with a judge he has had all weekend and is batting 100%, after the night before. Give me one good reason I would have had to send my dog out with that bunch? I didnt need points.......didnt see a reason in taking a chance on injuring my dog before the run-offs for 2nd place or worse, wins is all that makes them Grand, as you well know. BTW Dave, Who won the cast I scratched my dog in?????????? Did you run Burkets?
LOL
Best to you,
Randy
Look guys, there has to be a way to put all this back together. This is America, not rebs and yanks anymore. I see alot a friendship and I see of kidding around on this site, do you all want to throw that away??? I think that this sport has an EGO problem in it but unfortunatly me and my wife will not learn much cause some of you are bent on destroying it!!!! I'm really sorry for pissing you all off at times but understand that we love our beagles and are willing to fight to keep this sport alive. God how can we pass this down to our grandkids IF ITS GONE??????
Rich and Donna Piacentine
Powder Springs Ga.
Rich and Donna Piacentine
Powder Springs Ga.
Waynecrewch,the sport of beagling will not die if every registry known to man folded up today.Heck the sport of beagling was around long before they even started registering dogs in the first place so it will continue.The people are the ones that brought the registeries into being in the first place and each registry should strive to keep the people satisfied not suggest that they try another registry.This particular registry is the one trying to destroy it by the underhanded way they refuse to let the people be heard.Sure it's possible that this particular registry might not be around for our grandkids but if this is the way they do business I am not sure I want my grandkids envolved with them in the first place.understand that we love our beagles and are willing to fight to keep this sport alive. God how can we pass this down to our grandkids IF ITS GONE??????
I am really surprised that you,having served our country,would stand in support of a business that dictates rules and refuses to obey the "sence of fair play" that all businesses must adhear to if their to stay in business.Anyway it is up to you to see that your grandkids grow up to learn to love beagles and the sport of beagling...Registries have nothing to do with that.It will not die.
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Guest
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big lake beagles
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Guest
Whats P.P. 
and who does this Mace guy think he is treating my friend Randy like this
And Mr Frasier, you may need to rethink before you post on here , that last post seem to be missing some of the more important information, and another thing, if the NKC dont need our money why dont they give all the proceeds to John Boller, insted of keeping some of the proceeds for NKC, that would be a step in the right direction.
Hey NKC kiss this
and who does this Mace guy think he is treating my friend Randy like this And Mr Frasier, you may need to rethink before you post on here , that last post seem to be missing some of the more important information, and another thing, if the NKC dont need our money why dont they give all the proceeds to John Boller, insted of keeping some of the proceeds for NKC, that would be a step in the right direction.
Hey NKC kiss this