Breaking from running deer

Little Dog · Post by **Little Dog** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 7:00 am

How does the collar work? I figure it works two ways. For the collar wise hound they know you are pushing the button and know you don't want them to do something...period. As said eariler -- they realize how long your arms are. The other way was explained in detail, but I don't mind if the dogs know I'm pushing the button and in turn they learn I want and don't want them to do. That's just my two cents on the issue at hand.

Joe it is good to see you sticking to your guns, but what have you used that e-collar for? I tried the shaking thing before I owned collars but I had to break down and buy the collar after a real good rabbit dog really really wanted to be a good deer dog also and the shaking did no good.

wingpatch · Post by **wingpatch** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:15 am

Lots of real good ideas & comments here. Most all of them will&have worked for different dogs. Guys everyone should remember, What works for you might not work for me. Tone of voice, body language, temperment,judgement, The list goes on and on we are all different same as our dogs
Wingpatch

wingpatch · Post by **wingpatch** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:20 am

wingpatch wrote:Lots of real good ideas & comments here. Most all of them will&have worked for different dogs. Guys everyone should remember, What works for you might not work for me. Tone of voice, body language, temperment,judgement, The list goes on and on we are all different same as our dogs
Wingpatch

Joe go take your Medicine L.O.L.

Phillip Smith · Post by **Phillip Smith** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:44 am

Joe, I'm trying to understand where your coming from. You say you've never ruined a dog using a shock collar. And you say you still have one. What do you use it for and what results did you get when you used it. They must have been good if you say you have never ruined a dog with it. How many dogs have you used it on? You've had to use it a number of years to have first hand knowledge not hear say and reading books to make a judgement like you have against the E-collars. Can you answer the question? What bad experinces have you had with the E-collar to have such a negative attitude towards them? WE'RE ALL WAITING!!!

Joe West · Post by **Joe West** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 7:05 pm

Wingpatch: You were full of yourself on that one weren't you.

Phillip: NO. I'm still waiting for an answer. No common, you guys are the collar experts it should be an easy task for you to fully explain how the collar works on the hounds and the effects it has on them.

Phillip Smith · Post by **Phillip Smith** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 7:59 pm

Joe, I didn't think you would have an answer. You haven't had one answer on anything so for. You talk about us not explaining why and how a collar works, we don't have to they work but so for you haven't shown one thread of evidence that they don't. You have all these big terms and I don't think you have a clue about E-collars. I think someone told you they were bad and you just took it from there without finding out for yourself. If I'm wrong I'm sorry. I don't know how many years experince you have with the e-collar to tell everyone they are bad and want work but I and I think everyone else would like to know what you base your opinions on. Either hear say, books or first hand experince? What say you Joe?
You talk about shocking dogs off rabbits and it ruining them. Once or twice is not going to ruin a dog that has been doing something for years, just like letting dogs get to liking deer races, once or twice is not going to break then either-in most cases. That's the reason turning loose on a marked deer line and walking the dogs over it like a hunting situation and if they take it then stop them before they have a chance to learn to like it. Dogs are not stupid, they will learn this is wrong. It's not natural to keep dogs in pens but we do it, it's not natural to give them shots but we do it, it's not natural to haul them around in boxes but we do it. So what's the difference we do things and so do you that are not naturaly done in the wild. It don't ruin them!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phillip Smith · Post by **Phillip Smith** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 8:01 pm

I will answer one of your questions, the effects I seen on the were all positive! none negative.

wingpatch · Post by **wingpatch** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 8:05 pm

Full of MYSELF ??

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 9:16 pm

OUCH!! Joe did someone hit a nerve!

Beagleman973 · Post by **Beagleman973** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:05 pm

Dosgris, you are right the hound has to know what he is being corrected for. You start with the hound young, when he is more tractable, easier to catch. You correct him by hand, telling him no. Then if that doesn't work then the e-collar. Bev said it in an earlier post, you should still let the hound know you are the one causing the "NEGATIVE" correction. Anything else is confusing to the hound.

And make no mistake about it, correcting with a collar is a NEGATIVE correction. It may create positive results, but it is negative corrections.

Joe West · Post by **Joe West** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 11:23 pm

Phillip: Again you don't ansewr but ask a question instead. Here's the obvious fact; YOU don't know why the collar works or what effect it has on the hound to enable it to work. Why do you use something when you don't even know how it works? You keep saying how positive it is but you don't even know how it works.

Of course we do things that are not done in the wild; beagles are NOT wild animals.

A hound is running natural game. It gets a shock and leaves the trail with no commands from his handler and you didn't see anything negative! Why do you think the hound left the trail because he was so happy to be shocked he forgot all about running deer? No Negative? No wonder you won't even attempt a guess at what is going on with a shock.

Wingpatch: haven't seen any explanations from you either. come on guys lets go share some of your knowledge.

Phillip Smith · Post by **Phillip Smith** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 5:05 am

Joe you've run that mouth and now can't back it up. Joe do you have any first hand knowledge of shock collars? For the 3rd time. From your post it sure don't sound like it. I didn't expect an answer to the other questions because I don't think you have one. You just want to tell everyone their wrong because they don't do things your way.

Joe West · Post by **Joe West** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 5:09 am

One more thing. I'm fixen to explain the whole thing to ya's. You're not going to like how the collars do what they do nor why hounds do certain things they do after being shocked. But if you guys can't explain what's going on before hand your going to be stuck because if you can't explain what's going on then you won't have the right or ability to bash me for telling it like it is. So hurry up and give the detailed explanations about the shock collars before I do.

snowshoehareguide · Post by **snowshoehareguide** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 5:36 am

joe i know how they work.. ive put collar on myself and pushed the button. on my wrist not around my neck.. level one can barely feel it . level two hurts kind of a burn like an old time weed burner fencer.. level three is a far as ive gone with this one and its very uncomfortable... when i was young and dumb i tried level 5 on my leg. it hurts a lot... thats how collar works . i can hurt them from long distance... it just makes my reach longer... they know it... i use only he amount of electicitity i need to get the results i want.. .. when you shake a dog what do you get ... what will scare the wheels off one dog will make another wag its tail... i call my dogs off a rabbit with a shock collar.. i use warning tone . level one level two if needed. . dogs will come with tail wagging... when i show dogs shock collar its just like showing them a shotgun or a dog leash. . i havent had to shock a beagle for running deer in years.. i have one dog here thats been shocked on high a few times for running deer. he doesnt like it. .... he hasnt run a deer in 5 years either. he has been shocked on high just to get him to come. he is collar wise. this is just what you dont want to happen.. he is very stubborn... i think without a shock collar he would have got a bullet.. hes also my best dog. i use shock collars on my bear dogs all the time. they are apt to be a little tougher to handle than a beagle... you guys take this stuff way to personal.. i know joe dont like a shock collar. thats his opinion. id give up my gun before id give up my shock collar.... it is a great tool for training dogs.. dogs were trained for thousand of years without one. i think shock collars save way more dogs than they ever ruined. pete

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 5:45 am

Joe West wrote:Why do you use something when you don't even know how it works? You keep saying how positive it is but you don't even know how it works.

Joe you've received valid answers from some of us how it works. Read the back of any shock collar box and they'll tell you how it works. It's a fairly simple concept -- s-h-o-c-k. It's what the 'shock' does to a hound that you're so wrapped up about. You just can't accept that it doesn't emotionally cripple a hound. It doesn't ruin a hound. Don't know what vendetta you've got against shock collar manufactureres, but they don't have the pattern on ruining hounds.

I have a pretty good idea how the TV remote works, too, but I can't explain it in the kind of ridiculous detail that you're apparently looking for -- I still use the TV remote control. Am I wrong for doing this? Is there a treefrog in the front yard that I'm ruining by this ignorant practice?

Not going to just take your word for shock collars being evil -- show me. Show me, in my dogs, how evil this shock collar is.

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