Pappy, I'm not supporting the NKC ARHA in this mess. I'm trying to say that these feelings on this thread are very destructive to competition beagling as a whole. God, I guess we can't do anything anymore that pleases even half the people involved, thats my message to you all. Me and Donna are heading to the woods right now so your right we don't need any of this in our life, as a matter of fact after reading NYH's post the rest of the registries sound just as screwed up as this one. My son in laws father has some real cool stories about Coon hunting at the UKC so maybe they are OK.. Well take care, we're off to the woods.
Rich and Donna Piacentine
PS Don't you know, Kerry says I'm a Baby killer and a Rapist and a Murderer and I burn peoples hooches Down, I Just Ain't Right!!!!!!!
PPS God Bless The Texas Swift Boat Crews!!!!!!!!
NKC/ARHA Official Reply
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
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New York Hillbilly
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:54 pm
- Location: Soldotna, Alaska
crewchief,
You seem to be one of the few voices of reason at this point. My point in my post was simply that I am sure that they all have their fair share of problems and that ARHA PP was not some exception. This is not to say that they are necessarily all "screwed up" because I believe as a whole they are not. The fact remains however if people are hell bent on revenge to destroy anything they can usually find a way. Once things get going on these sites it is easy to become a feeding frenzy with everyone getting in on the act. I am afraid that often times innocent people and in this case a whole organization can be hurt over what may be an isolated case and some poor handling of a bad situation. I know nothing first hand of the parties invoved or the facts of the matter and do not really care to at this point. I will not suffer in the ARHA/NKC or any other format slides off into the sunset but there are those who will, and I don't mean those who own it. I am certain that losing a large organization such as this that promotes "BEAGLES" and "HUNTING" will only serve to remove on more place where folks who love the breed and the sport can get together and share that passion. I cannot sit back and take a cavaliere (sp?) attitute like "oh well they had it coming" or see anyone being so set on revenge that they could be happy bringing about such a situation. While people may feel they were delt with unfairly or cheated by the parties invoved in this little area of the country and what they percieve as the bad handling of their concerns they run they the risk of themselves hurting and cheating other innocent people else where. To discredit and smear the entire organization only adds fuel and credibility to those in other organizations who have long held that those hounds/handlers/owners were nothing more than backyard mongrels who were "not good enough", pure enough or whatever to run with "their" hounds. Many great hounds and people have left their mark on the breed in this organization and I find it just as UNFAIR to cast a shadow over or rob them of their hard work and accomplisments. It is time for everyone to look at the bigger picture and see if the best thing to do is to continue they assault or to work things out. I hope y'all can get your sh!t together and work this out for the sake of the hounds and others who had nothing to do with any of this and do not want a black eye for a fight they were not in. Again, take some deep breaths, swallow a little pride, remember the bigger picture and those involved sit down again and try to work it out. For those who insist on fanning the flames please refrain from doing so! I cannot help but see this as a school yard fight where even after those fighting are tired and done yet they keep on going for another 15 minutes as those around them cheer and encourage it. Those cheering being the same ones would never dare fight themselves yet walk about making statements like "yeah..I would have", and "If that happened to me", you get the idea.
As the diet lady used to say "stop the insanity!".
Peace,
NYH
You seem to be one of the few voices of reason at this point. My point in my post was simply that I am sure that they all have their fair share of problems and that ARHA PP was not some exception. This is not to say that they are necessarily all "screwed up" because I believe as a whole they are not. The fact remains however if people are hell bent on revenge to destroy anything they can usually find a way. Once things get going on these sites it is easy to become a feeding frenzy with everyone getting in on the act. I am afraid that often times innocent people and in this case a whole organization can be hurt over what may be an isolated case and some poor handling of a bad situation. I know nothing first hand of the parties invoved or the facts of the matter and do not really care to at this point. I will not suffer in the ARHA/NKC or any other format slides off into the sunset but there are those who will, and I don't mean those who own it. I am certain that losing a large organization such as this that promotes "BEAGLES" and "HUNTING" will only serve to remove on more place where folks who love the breed and the sport can get together and share that passion. I cannot sit back and take a cavaliere (sp?) attitute like "oh well they had it coming" or see anyone being so set on revenge that they could be happy bringing about such a situation. While people may feel they were delt with unfairly or cheated by the parties invoved in this little area of the country and what they percieve as the bad handling of their concerns they run they the risk of themselves hurting and cheating other innocent people else where. To discredit and smear the entire organization only adds fuel and credibility to those in other organizations who have long held that those hounds/handlers/owners were nothing more than backyard mongrels who were "not good enough", pure enough or whatever to run with "their" hounds. Many great hounds and people have left their mark on the breed in this organization and I find it just as UNFAIR to cast a shadow over or rob them of their hard work and accomplisments. It is time for everyone to look at the bigger picture and see if the best thing to do is to continue they assault or to work things out. I hope y'all can get your sh!t together and work this out for the sake of the hounds and others who had nothing to do with any of this and do not want a black eye for a fight they were not in. Again, take some deep breaths, swallow a little pride, remember the bigger picture and those involved sit down again and try to work it out. For those who insist on fanning the flames please refrain from doing so! I cannot help but see this as a school yard fight where even after those fighting are tired and done yet they keep on going for another 15 minutes as those around them cheer and encourage it. Those cheering being the same ones would never dare fight themselves yet walk about making statements like "yeah..I would have", and "If that happened to me", you get the idea.
As the diet lady used to say "stop the insanity!". Peace,
NYH
When my life on earth is ended....this is all I'm gonna say...Lord I've been a hard working pilgrim on the way!
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Bunnyseeker
- Posts: 148
- Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:35 pm
- Location: Tuscaloosa,Alabama
Why is everyone under the assumption that anyone is trying to tear ARHA/NKC down? Where in any of these posts have the beaglers involved in this incident stated they hope the organization folds? NOWHERE. They just want to be heard because all they wanted was to have a freaking club meeting. Their goal FROM THE BEGINNING was to improve the integrity of the organization to ensure that it WOULD be around for everyone, but the powers that be obviously don't see it that way. There's plenty of room left under their rug.
NYH, I have to disagree with you and a couple of others on this one. You guys have this all backwards.
It was Randy, Matt and Dale who wanted to fix a potential problem with their club and the organization.
It was ARHA/NKC's PRIDE that prevented them from doing so, and in the process, they cast the shadow ON THEMSELVES, not the other way around. THEY are the ones who need to take a deep breath and swallow some of that pride. Randy, Matt and Dale are NOT the villains here. It saddens me to see you and others belittle their situation and make them suddenly the bad guy BECAUSE THEY FOUGHT FOR WHAT WAS RIGHT. The only people hell-bent on revenge here were the ones who wanted to silence these people, so they BANNED them for 3 YEARS. Nothing they did was worth a banning, much less a 3-year one.
The only feeding frenzy I see here is some of you who are willing to let 3 of your fellow beaglers be HUNG OUT TO DRY, sacrifice them and shrug it off as an "isolated case" because deep down you're really afraid you won't have someplace to run your own dogs, or that your ARHA papers won't be worth the ink used to print them. Cry about the future of beagling for all of America all you want. What I'm getting from some of these posts is you're worried about your OWN loss, right now. You don't want to see all the hard word, time and money you've spent go down the drain. Well how do you think Randy, Matt and Dale are feeling right about now? What's sad is they put everything on the line for a fellow beagler who played Judas when the time for truth came.
You stand a greater chance of losing your right to trial in ARHA over a badly handled situation like this than the threat of the organization going down. Every last one of you may go to a trial next weekend and find yourself in a similar situation that these three beaglers were in. It can happen in a heartbeat to anyone. You will be faced with the choice of doing what's right and moral, or averting your eyes so that you can play again next week. What are you going to do when you look around for justice and support from your fellow beaglers, and they take the same "thin the herd" attitude some of you are suggesting for Randy, Matt and Dale?
It's easy to see what is happening here. When this topic first came up back in June, everybody wanted to know what the big stink was. When it didn't look like anyone was coming forward with hard information, I locked the thread. Now we're back with hard information and everyone is hovering to catch the next word. The hits on the thread go through the roof. Everyone's happy reading all this dirt and can't wait for the next post, but they have nothing to say themselves. All of a sudden, the tide changes and it looks like there's a threat that some of you lurkers may not get to run your dogs either. Suddenly, we have people from outta nowhere posting and saying "Hey now, let's all calm down. It's not as bad as it looks. All this fighting will destroy us". I say pi$$ on that. Every last beagler should have been in the trenches with these three guys all along.
Especially the guy from Kansas who complained in the first place. Nothing like throwing a firecracker into the middle of a crowd and then slinking away, eh? All you WHINERS out there think about that for a minute.
It's easy to fight for justice when you have nothing to lose. If it's gonna cost you something, then to hell with justice? C'mon people! Purleeeze!
NYH, I have to disagree with you and a couple of others on this one. You guys have this all backwards.
It was Randy, Matt and Dale who wanted to fix a potential problem with their club and the organization.
It was ARHA/NKC's PRIDE that prevented them from doing so, and in the process, they cast the shadow ON THEMSELVES, not the other way around. THEY are the ones who need to take a deep breath and swallow some of that pride. Randy, Matt and Dale are NOT the villains here. It saddens me to see you and others belittle their situation and make them suddenly the bad guy BECAUSE THEY FOUGHT FOR WHAT WAS RIGHT. The only people hell-bent on revenge here were the ones who wanted to silence these people, so they BANNED them for 3 YEARS. Nothing they did was worth a banning, much less a 3-year one.
The only feeding frenzy I see here is some of you who are willing to let 3 of your fellow beaglers be HUNG OUT TO DRY, sacrifice them and shrug it off as an "isolated case" because deep down you're really afraid you won't have someplace to run your own dogs, or that your ARHA papers won't be worth the ink used to print them. Cry about the future of beagling for all of America all you want. What I'm getting from some of these posts is you're worried about your OWN loss, right now. You don't want to see all the hard word, time and money you've spent go down the drain. Well how do you think Randy, Matt and Dale are feeling right about now? What's sad is they put everything on the line for a fellow beagler who played Judas when the time for truth came.
You stand a greater chance of losing your right to trial in ARHA over a badly handled situation like this than the threat of the organization going down. Every last one of you may go to a trial next weekend and find yourself in a similar situation that these three beaglers were in. It can happen in a heartbeat to anyone. You will be faced with the choice of doing what's right and moral, or averting your eyes so that you can play again next week. What are you going to do when you look around for justice and support from your fellow beaglers, and they take the same "thin the herd" attitude some of you are suggesting for Randy, Matt and Dale?
It's easy to see what is happening here. When this topic first came up back in June, everybody wanted to know what the big stink was. When it didn't look like anyone was coming forward with hard information, I locked the thread. Now we're back with hard information and everyone is hovering to catch the next word. The hits on the thread go through the roof. Everyone's happy reading all this dirt and can't wait for the next post, but they have nothing to say themselves. All of a sudden, the tide changes and it looks like there's a threat that some of you lurkers may not get to run your dogs either. Suddenly, we have people from outta nowhere posting and saying "Hey now, let's all calm down. It's not as bad as it looks. All this fighting will destroy us". I say pi$$ on that. Every last beagler should have been in the trenches with these three guys all along.
Especially the guy from Kansas who complained in the first place. Nothing like throwing a firecracker into the middle of a crowd and then slinking away, eh? All you WHINERS out there think about that for a minute.
It's easy to fight for justice when you have nothing to lose. If it's gonna cost you something, then to hell with justice? C'mon people! Purleeeze!
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blackdirt beagles
all you guys worried about losing places to run or worried about not filling up your trophy shelves make me laugh. thats why when i run with my buddies no one is afraid they are gonna be cheated or correct calls not made because all we run for is fun. at the end of the day everyone is smiling and if its gunseason, hopefully we have a few rabbits for the fridge. maybe some of you guys should stick up for your buddies instead of worrying about how this might affect you. there will always be a registry and format somewhere for you guys to trial in if thats all thats important to you but with attitudes like yours, im sure these problems will still be around also. the only way to get rid of problems like these are to actually deal with them 100% and not compromise or hope stuff dies down.
crewchf,I hope you and Donna have a great hunt,wish I were there to tag along and hear the music and share the sport of beagling.Can't wait for my beagle pup to get big enough to hunt on her own.Until then I am leaving in a few minutes to go put on a UKC coonhunt at our local club.Your son-in-laws father was correct,there is lots of fun to be had in UKC hunts as well as PKC and yes even NKC coonhunts(although there are very few NKC hunts in this state anymore) I really do respect your opinion in this discussion and hope I didn't come across as implying that I thought you were wrong,heck we may never know who is right and who is wrong.I'm just saying IMO it is wrong for any organization to ban someone for wanting to have a meeting and try to make things run a little smoother in a hunt and to request a membership list of the club involved.Whatever the outcome of this incident Friends will continue meeting new Friends,life will go on,and somewhere,somehow those Friends will find a way to compete beagle against beagle.It's just human nature to do these things.
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Bunnyseeker
- Posts: 148
- Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:35 pm
- Location: Tuscaloosa,Alabama
I hope no one took my post wrong. I believe that everyone involved should fight for what's right and speak out against wrong doing.
I don't trial or chase trophies either but if I was placed in a similiar situation (as those that were banned) ,I would definetly fight for what's right and speak my mind.
I agree!If ARHA made a bad judgement,they should admit that they were wrong and make admends to fix the problem at hand.This can be fixed but it will take both sides wanting to resovle it before it can be. You have to have respect for beaglers that want to improve their clubs integrity and resolve any issuses before they became a problem.It was ARHA/NKC's PRIDE that prevented them from doing so, and in the process, they cast the shadow ON THEMSELVES, not the other way around. THEY are the ones who need to take a deep breath and swallow some of that pride. Randy, Matt and Dale are NOT the villains here. It saddens me to see you and others belittle their situation and make them suddenly the bad guy BECAUSE THEY FOUGHT FOR WHAT WAS RIGHT. The only people hell-bent on revenge here were the ones who wanted to silence these people, so they BANNED them for 3 YEARS. Nothing they did was worth a banning, much less a 3-year one.
I don't trial or chase trophies either but if I was placed in a similiar situation (as those that were banned) ,I would definetly fight for what's right and speak my mind.
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Guest
Pappy,
I missed the next page, (7 I think) after crewch posted first but I see what was meant by his post.
Bev,
I dare not go up against a lady of many words, (writer) such as yourself. First because you are a friend and second I don't stand a chance in ----. But my thoughts on this matter is I have never worn the boots of any of these folks. And I do want to run in PP again but not that bad! I can do with or without. See ya. Wayne
I missed the next page, (7 I think) after crewch posted first but I see what was meant by his post.
Bev,
I dare not go up against a lady of many words, (writer) such as yourself. First because you are a friend and second I don't stand a chance in ----. But my thoughts on this matter is I have never worn the boots of any of these folks. And I do want to run in PP again but not that bad! I can do with or without. See ya.
WayneWayne, I consider you a friend as well. Believe me when I say I would go to the mat for you if I thought you'd been done wrong. There's no reason why this situation can't be used as a learning experience for ALL, both particpants AND governing parties. You know the old saying, "That which doesn't kill us only makes us stronger."
BTW, you know you and Chuck Terry, and some others can take me down with 3 little sentences after one of my essays, lol! I'm glad you guys feel comfortable enough to put me in my place when you think I need it.
I might disagree with some things, but I love all y'all that come here to visit - I hope all y'all know that.
BTW, you know you and Chuck Terry, and some others can take me down with 3 little sentences after one of my essays, lol! I'm glad you guys feel comfortable enough to put me in my place when you think I need it.
I might disagree with some things, but I love all y'all that come here to visit - I hope all y'all know that.
OK Bev,,,
I'm pulling out all the stops here, my Crew Chief friends from Dobbins (94th Air Wing) are going to fill up 3 C130's full of Rattle Snakes and we're gonna drop em all over Indiana!!!!! Do they sell snake chaps up there, or do we need an Army Convoy for the chaps. Either way I'm having a ball on this website. You know Donna and I are coming off 2 years of active duty fighting war protestors on the Militarycity letters from a two front war website. I got to tell you, you people are nothing compared to them in an argument!! After all these posts we're still nowhere with this issue, but everybody has had a shot or two at it!!! All kidding aside I think this is fixable, cause we are all Americans and we are the Greatest Nation On Earth...Period... If we need new leadership in the NKC ARHA tell us what to do, you seem very versed in this problem and I trust your jugement. If you don't know what to do them all this backbighting must stop and stop now!!!!! Everybody Have A Nice Day, Darn its hot down here today, even the rabbits are holllled up over this issue!!!!
Crew Chief and CountryGirlGa
hgydrrsghmniyugth ji
PS I'm encrypting my address from now on so one of you suckers don't come and take a shot at us....
I'm pulling out all the stops here, my Crew Chief friends from Dobbins (94th Air Wing) are going to fill up 3 C130's full of Rattle Snakes and we're gonna drop em all over Indiana!!!!! Do they sell snake chaps up there, or do we need an Army Convoy for the chaps. Either way I'm having a ball on this website. You know Donna and I are coming off 2 years of active duty fighting war protestors on the Militarycity letters from a two front war website. I got to tell you, you people are nothing compared to them in an argument!! After all these posts we're still nowhere with this issue, but everybody has had a shot or two at it!!! All kidding aside I think this is fixable, cause we are all Americans and we are the Greatest Nation On Earth...Period... If we need new leadership in the NKC ARHA tell us what to do, you seem very versed in this problem and I trust your jugement. If you don't know what to do them all this backbighting must stop and stop now!!!!! Everybody Have A Nice Day, Darn its hot down here today, even the rabbits are holllled up over this issue!!!!
Crew Chief and CountryGirlGa
hgydrrsghmniyugth ji
PS I'm encrypting my address from now on so one of you suckers don't come and take a shot at us....
No thanks Crew chief, it's already been done......literally.OK Bev,,,
I'm pulling out all the stops here, my Crew Chief friends from Dobbins (94th Air Wing) are going to fill up 3 C130's full of Rattle Snakes and we're gonna drop em all over Indiana!!!!!
It's hard to remove an owner from office, but one can hope the attitude of "might makes right" will take a back seat next time something like this happens. All of this could have been avoided with one small sentence:
"Let them have their meeting."
They had a right to have a meeting.
Okay everyone, get what you want said or make some suggestions for the future, or whatever, over the rest of this weekend. I'm gonna lock this topic midday on Monday to give all sides of this issue ample time to respond.
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Guest
Dear Dale Barnes, Randy B. and Matt G., I have to agree with New york Hillbilly here.Forget the fact of how much you guys have contributed to the PP organization.Forget the fact that you guys were simply trying to make your club the best it could be.Forget the fact that you felt your integrity was being impuned because the clubs was, so you wanted to do the right thing.Forget the fact that what you asked was fair and reasonable.Forget the fact that you are being smeared and discredited by this banning.Try and realize that you may somehow be cheating some unknown innocent party out there.Just take the shaft and dont talk about it so it can happen to other innocent partys out there just like yourself.Dont stand up for yourself and what is right.I hope you will consider the idea that cheating is ok and that you should not say anything about it.Just my thoughts on the matter.Dont worry Hillbilly we will get these guys straightened out.
J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel
J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel
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sgc
Branko Dogs
I know of a Branko dog that is going into the PP Hall of Fame. ??? How will these guys justify that? I wonder how much of this whole issue is, again, about fitting a format to the type of dog you own.
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Guest
oh as an afterthought to the above post.maybe I am wrong afterall.I have a friend who has contributed more to the growth of the ARHA than any other single person I know.He is also one of the nicest people I have met in this sport.He has helped start many clubs and has served in many offices including at the executive level.In the last three years he has got the shaft more often and worse than what these guys are getting it and he has chosen to remain silent and take it.So far I dont think it has helped anyone.
J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel
J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel