Hunt and Search. Genetic or training or both?

[k & m kennels]

Thks guys. I just need to be patient & give all the tracks I can

[Alabama John]

A bird dog points, a retriever retrieves, a squirrel, possum, coon dog trees, a fox hound runs, a Beagle trails either on ground scent or by scenting the air, all genetic. Same with differences in where and how they prefer to hunt for their game, all genetic.
Although none of these will perform properly without field opportunities when they are young.

[Laneline]

On making a good dog in general? It is my experience that it is absolutely both… I have seen some great trainers make good dogs, but the hounds were limited and had a ceiling because their genetics would only take them so far…

And I have seen some horrible trainers that did everything you can possibly think of wrong {run the young ones with dogs that have bad habits, not run them regularly, the owners do more mouthing and yelling in the field than the dog does barking, shooting over young unstarted pups while they were standing at their feet, listing to really bad advice, attempting to train and use dogs outside of the elements and with packs that they were not bred to run with and/or in, misusing the shock collars…etc.…} and the dogs still “adapt” and end up really good hounds in spite of their owner and training, because of such good genetics.

However, when the stars align and a really great trainer links up with really great genetics… that’s when we witness something special. But it seems certain circumstances, money, wrong place at wrong time, kennel blindness or just “poor luck” prevents this from happening as often as you would think it would or should.

Concerning the two traits of “hunt & search” alone? It is pure genetics of how a dog is “wired” between the ears that makes it “instinctively” do what it does.

[warddog]

A bird dog points, a retriever retrieves, a squirrel, possum, coon dog trees, a fox hound runs, a Beagle trails either on ground scent or by scenting the air, all genetic. Same with differences in where and how they prefer to hunt for their game, all genetic.
Although none of these will perform properly without field opportunities when they are young.

EXACTLY Alabama John. They are born and bred for a specific purpose. All dogs have the sense of smell and some can be trained to use it to smell specific scents. Those do not have the genetics to perform all the secondary tasks associated with using them to survive in nature. Genetics are what the almighty puts into living creatures to naturally survive minus man's influence. YES, man has intervened for many, many years including domesticating the dog which took them from the natural ability to hunt for whatever they need for survival to being a KEPT creature dependent on man for all their needs. Training a beagle to hunt, find or track a rabbit has nothing to do with man teaching it anything but rather it has all to do with giving those we domesticate the ability to do what they have been bred to do so THEY can hone whatever genetics they inherited. Now if one calls allowing them to spend time in the field training then yes, I agree that a beagle never put afield is a beagle that never smells much less tracks a rabbit to complete a circle. But given the opportunity I believe that genetics will take over and they still shall try to track one.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Genetics loads the gun---but environment pulls the trigger.

[Buckeye Bob]

Genetics loads the gun---but environment pulls the trigger.

[Buckeye Bob]

I've had limited experience in training a broke dog from a pup. Looking back at the 2 true jump dogs I've owned I am looking for the common denominator as I try to find it again. With both of those dogs I was fortunate to have the genetics even though I didn't know it at the time.But I know that I spent more time in the field with each of them at a very young age solo then any other dog I've owned. Just a time in my life when I could do that. And at that time had a great place within walking distance of the kennel that always had rabbits. Those pups discovered that if they went into a thicket, a tree top, a brush pile, anyplace a rabbit is typically going to be laid up, they would be rewarded with a rabbit to run. That's when the genetics kicked in. They were both what I consider above average gun dogs by 8 months old. If I'm honest I'd have to say it's mostly my fault that all the other pups I've started since then just never became a jump dog. Some of it was genetics but I just did not have the time to give the opportunity SOLO to develop into a jump dog. I can count 6 houses that have been built on the prime rabbit cover within walking distance of me, my other spot has been claimed by the landowners deer hunting son and the best honey hole I've ever had is now hunted hard by the landowners sons who've grown up and love to kill rabbits. My conclusion is I won't even try to start another pup unless I have my own starting pen. I can have the best genetics but without regular opportunity to jump rabbits before 6 months old seems to me I'm setting up for mediocrity at best. I'm not discounting genetics, I want the absolute best chance so of course I want the best genetics but I remain convinced early environment is a big factor

[warddog]

A dog kept domesticated in the house or a kennel without being given the opportunity to do what it was bred to do will matter NOT about the genetics. One NOT given the opportunity to do what it was genetically bred for will NEVER do it. The ones that do have the right genetics, given the opportunity to hone them in the wild will clearly show they have the propensity to run rabbits.
I like Buckeye Bob have seen many reasons why we do not pack the same caliber dogs as we once used to. Yes, habitat, private ownership of our old hunting honey holes and the farmers tilling up as much land as they possibly can have attributed to the major thing that makes rabbit tracks for pups or any dog to follow.......RABBITS! I see some folks still have the ability to find an abundance of them but I am going to say that for the majority of us we can honestly say we just do NOT have the numbers of them as we used to. I can walk some of the best state ground habitat not 5 miles from my house and NOT get a rabbit jumped by the dogs or those of us tromping it. We now claim that we saw a rabbit when traveling the roads like we used to say about deer when I was a kid. Seems now days those things have changed 180 degrees!