The American Beagler Forum

Thank you outrider, Mark Powell gave me those bitches because he was going overseas with his job & he saw that I was looking for some bitches to lease to breed that met my standards. They both definitely meet my standards. They were bred by Don Hoog; so that says a lot. If I get something good out of them, I'll always give credit to Mark & the breeders of my hounds' ancestors. Just like I've always given credit to Branko for breeding dogs like Heli-Prop, Brent Gay for breeding Prime Time & John Dewyse for bringing Pacesetter blood into the Mid-West trials for us all to see & I got a good look as a judge for many years. I breed on a very small scale, but I've always had hounds & the same blood since '95. Rarely, have I owned or bred a hound good enough to win trials, but with the help of John, Branko & Brent, I made the cross that produced IFC Stoney Hills Gator. Gator is the sire of the top sire right now, IFC Cedar Beck Oliver. I bought the dam, Robin, as a pup from Brent that was out of Branko's Heli-Prop & Brent's Amazing Grace bitch. I judged a trial & saw a big bitch owned by John Dewyse put on a show that was out of a Pacesetter male that happened to have a Prop mother, Baba Louie. So John took her to Michigan for me & bred her to him. There are many breeders before those guys that also deserve as much or more credit for promoting & breeding the style & look of the hounds we like. Hopefully, I can keep breeding this line & help someone else with some good dogs down the road just like these guys helped me..

Ok Patch, I see you edited with a "flavor of the month" comment. The male I bred to, Branko's Spotty Beast is linebred Lumberjack & Ali-Baba. They finished in the '90's & have produced 14 FC's between them in the Mid-West alone. I would call that chasing the "flavor of the last 2 decades".

Whatever happened to just helping someone out to do it.....go one mile...no go two....

Mr. Gross is doing most of us a favor and not gouging us to do it(AKC)...the comments on this thread are EXACTLY why MANY, MANY folks have left this board..the leopard doesn't change his spots.....

And the same old guys keep acting like the same old guys...loyalty to the death...or at least until you convince everyone you are a complete jackass.....

By the way...most are convinced......

Take care and good running to all!

And....not to just jump in and hijack as others do...Mr. Gross has asked me on multiple occasions for dogs pedigrees...and always THANKED ME....

Really what does it hurt to give of something you may already have...oh I forgot...not the world we live in anymore.....that's the shame of it....only one person can change that......look in the mirror....I know I need to regularly....

Sorry to get off topic. I was just taking up for Wayne & they wanted to start downing my poor old dogs for some reason.

Lol, Greg you poor ole boy. No one was downing your dogs, but you never miss an opportunity to put on an add for your dogs pedigree or field trial record...lol...that should help sell your pups. Everyone knows the biggest investment in a litter of pups is buying or raising a producing bitch. Since yours was given to you (a wonderful gift). the stud fee and a bag of feed will be paid for by the selling of one pup. Most litters have an average of 6 pups so the other 5 sold would be profit if you have my luck an get mostly males...lol... Again, No one said anything about YOUR dogs, you brought them up with you assumptions and again you were wrong, Mr, Gross never said he wanted the pedigrees for resale to others and no, I never received a reply or thank you for providing the info. If so,... Mr. Gross can post it as the exchange was done as a pm on this board and will be recorded in his "sent" mailbox.

Mr Hall, it doesn't surprise me you jump in on this one. When the "itch" comes you can't help but want to scratch it...lol
I have no problem helping anyone but as I said in my original post, there is no harm informing folks of what you doing or thanking them for the help.

Jim Hall wrote;
And the same old guys keep acting like the same old guys...loyalty to the death...or at least until you convince everyone you are a complete jackass.....
By the way...most are convinced....look in the mirror....I know I need to regularly....
...

Whatever man.

P.S. Just so you'll feel better, the last litter Grace had, we had bad luck. Hubert, my partner & I lost a fortune because she raised all seven of her pups, but they all but one died of Parvo at Hubert's when they were 4 months old even though they had had all of their shots.

And I don't see what the difference is if they were given to me or if I paid $10,000 for them. They're still the same top quality hounds. He gave them to me because he knew I would breed them to a nice, well bred male & maybe make a name for themselves as producers. I take it as a real compliment that he picked me to own them the rest of their lives. I was told by Don Hoog that Mark ran the crap out of them & you can tell by the way they hunt & run.

P.S.S. Keep those pedigrees & any good info you have under your hat; somebody may use it to make a dollar. What's this world coming to?

Idk Mr. Gross personally talked to him several times on the phone though. I have several of his pedigrees and they are very professional and reasonable.

Gerg, from your twisting replies, the world is coming to no good.
Gosh, you've got me hating myself that I would be happy anyone would loose puppies to parvo. I don't know what all your story has to do with Mr. Gross and his collection of pedigree info for sale. Anyone who's had hounds and raised pups over the years has most likely had a bout with parvo. It's a costly event in money and future hopes, but a fact of raise hounds. There's nothing like having 3 litters of puppies all within a month of age of each other and having one get sick, then two and then finding out it's parvo. You ask the vet, should I separate the litters and he tells you, for parvo to show signs, they were exposed to the virus a week ago so most likely all have been exposed through handling, feedings and even flies cross contamination. Like their wild brothers, I've concluded some will make it showing little effect and others will die quickly within a day or two of showing symptoms. This was just another lesson of survival of the fittest. It reminded me of one of Randalls statements, "I was never easy on the patches nor coddled them".
I hope you bitches whelp you a basket full of healthy champions.

Thank you. Good luck to you as well.

time u count your printer ink, ped paper etc... 5 bucks is a great price . ....

anyone that down Wayne just dont know him.. Ive known Wayne for close to 20 years. I consider him a great friend.. I spend too much time researching peds a part of the hobby. Alot of times I pay Wayne for a 5 generation pedigree because after a few hours of researching its alot easier and cheaper to pay the man...

I do NOT read or see a single person downing anyone but rather the fact that something is given and then charged for. From my perspective the root issue I read in the post has nothing to do with the individual doing it but what the individual is doing. I understand that ink, paper as well as time are ALL not free but if someone doesn't actually know the individual transparency would be important as to why they are inquiring about wanting something. The original post was asking exactly that question and evidently he as well as I and others had no clue of who this person was. Knowing what I know now I would have no problem giving him a pedigree I might have that he needed for his files and in charging $5.00 dollars for it when the cost from a kennel club is well above that just for a litter registration, much less several generations.

Paper and ink aren't free. Neither is postage. I think he is doing everyone a favor. Not becoming a millionaire. It's $5. I don't know him personally. But I will be getting with him soon and sending him my $5

I have purchased from Wayne documentation on hounds. The first time I had seen his work I asked the question why. As I continued in hounds I realized 30$ for papers were pretty high. I think what Wayne encompasses the American spirit of finding a need and filling it. It also sounds like he goes straight to the source when he can. Really who could be upset about that.