Gearing Down Or Cold Trailing ?

[WELLS WOODS]

At risk of embarrassing myself, I'll admit that I think a good hound has enough brains to know whether the rabbit is up or not. I've seen many times some of the best hounds I've judged stay quiet while several in the pack trailed old tracks & never produce a rabbit. Then when a rabbit was jumped, the hound that didn't cold trail showed more nose when the rabbit would cross tough scenting areas than the cold trailers. These hounds had a high level of intelligence. Judging field trials for 20 years gave me a chance to see more hounds run than most people will ever see. These trials gave me a chance to watch some of the best hounds of all time run & changed my opinion of what I thought hunting beagles were capable of in the field. I've seen hounds do things that you wouldn't believe unless you saw it yourself. Before then, I thought old Fred in my backyard was the greatest hound in the world.

[mybeagles]

Sounds like you were observing babblers. They are vastly more common than a good cold trail dog. Babblers are worthless and should be removed as they are very disruptive.

Greg in my 20 years of judging the fault that I find most disruptive is over competitive dogs laying a false line out of the check area in a gamble. Ironically a good cold trail dog doesn't have the extra mouth in the check to lay a false line or drag the pack into a check by over running the line; they tend to slot up perhaps due to "brains".

[gwyoung]

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[adirondackjoe]

I love a good cold trailing dog. I have 3. oe has a very cold nose and does a LOT of cold tracking. my second has a cold nose but not AS cold. my third is a big male who I would describe as a very hot nose. when my old cold nose dog takes a track sometimes she'll be on it for 45 minutes before my second dog makes a peep. after my second dog opens it's only a few minutes later my big male opens and it's game on. I would say they jump 75% of the cold rabbits she starts. how could anyone find fault with that?

[likeemfast]

Some give a hound too much credit for brains. Anyhow not to start a fight but could any just simply tell us how your hounds know when encountering a rabbit track that, that rabbit is not up. Lets just say a rabbit runs across your yard and goes to hole 200 yards and 4 minutes later. He is not up, HE is in the hole. A half hour later your big nosed hound smells the track in your yard , puts his masssive brain to work and immediately deduces that the rabbit is holed under the neighbors barn and wont bark? Yeah right! Same scenario over at my house, only my Hound hits the track in my yard runs it all the way to the barn, barking a nice tune, the rabbit was not up when he hit the track, it was in the hole before he ever hit the track, STUPID dog. Speaking of brains the real houndsmen know that brains are not being bred in, something is being bred out.

GW, obviously you have to know what you describe is not what is meant by "rabbit being up", let's use this example instead, I drop my hounds off the tailgate, they hit the brush and hit some overnite trail, they work the trail in the direction of the rabbit squatting in his nest and the hounds never make a peep until they get close enough to that resting rabbit and he bolts from cover and the race is on. Now others have those hounds that would open on that overnite trail all the way to the resting bunny, thus you have hounds that open early and them that only open when rabbit is up. Now that i know you know what is meant, i will anxiously wait for your response.

I love a good cold trailing dog. I have 3. oe has a very cold nose and does a LOT of cold tracking. my second has a cold nose but not AS cold. my third is a big male who I would describe as a very hot nose. when my old cold nose dog takes a track sometimes she'll be on it for 45 minutes before my second dog makes a peep. after my second dog opens it's only a few minutes later my big male opens and it's game on. I would say they jump 75% of the cold rabbits she starts. how could anyone find fault with that?

Joe, nothing personal, but i would not own a very cold nosed hound like you describe. I had one once, and she could cold trail with the best of them but to me its disruptive when they carry-on that much, plus works on my nerves. A hound that actually hunts will out jump a cold trailer most days. Keep in mind this comes from a guy who DOES NOT run hounds in winters worst. We have too many good days in PA to run than to head out on the downright miserable ones.

[gwyoung]

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[gwyoung]

!

[likeemfast]

GW, now dont go getting your panties bunched. I could tell the way you asked that question you had a itchy nose. Im just letting you scratch it. Your example of bunny running across the yard then going into a hole and then hounds striking the line was not how guys describe a hound that dont bark till rabbit is up. They are described that way off the jump, not seen running thru the back yard under the swing set to the barn. You know that yourself, which is why you wanna put in your 2 cents. I didnt say i have big brained hounds either as you say, but i do think they know something about barometric pressure and predator encounters, they ain't dumb. Obviously your hounds spoke to you and gave you the answer because you seem to know the right answer. I go by the opinion there are some things we will just never know unless we are the hound, not the big brained houndsman who has all the answers, not saying you are, just saying.....

I am awaiting your answer, The fact of the matter is no hound when hitting a track gets any info but scent, scent cant tell him if the rabbit is even still alive. You big brain hound guys crack me up, i guess it comes in real handy when you cant help the kids with their homework, You can get the dog to do it! My big question to you is because it is what is being said is that the hound that didnt open did not do so because he had BRains enough to know the rabbit was not up, you believe that crap?

My response is, and i have seen this particular type of thread too many times in my couple years on these boards to know better than to even respond with scientific type knowledge of scent and pressure and climate change, so i will go with proven theory. If i have a hound that dont open till the "rabbit is up" and he has never thrown one bark on a cold trail, or opened on a dead rabbit, or ran off game and every time he opens there is a rabbit running in front of him, am i wrong in saying he does not open till the rabbit is up? I think not.

Lastly, the math my son is doing in 7th grade is challenging for me at times, i never thought about getting the hounds to help but i may give that a try next time.

[gwyoung]

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[likeemfast]

GW, i dont know how he knows the rabbit aint up, he just dont open unless its up. Bad nose? Maybe, he looks pretty good for a hound with a bad nose tho.

This past weekend, i was dumb enough to go out, 12 degrees, 5 inches of 3 day old snow and felt like -3 according to my ifone weather app. Got into a nice hollow outta the wind, still cool tho. My male jumped both rabbits but my one female opened early on one of them but she didnt produce, he picked up most checks, was glad to have him or it woulda been rough. He dont open early, period.

[gwyoung]

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[likeemfast]

GW, i would rather have a skinny dog than a dog that dont know if the rabbit hes chasing is even up or not.

They probably cost too much for me.

[gwyoung]

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[likeemfast]

I did, hope she has a couple dozen

[WELLS WOODS]

My beagles, I used to judge 7 or 8 licensed trials a year for 20 + years since '95 & I never judged with you or ran a dog under you. You may have been a judge, but I don't think you have judged that many trials. Probably because you have been overseas a lot & your service in the Military is certainly appreciated by me. There is no good "cold trailer" in my opinion unless he does it silently until he actually jumps the rabbit. You can't kill a rabbit that isn't up, so why bark before the rabbit is up. Each hound in the pack should be trying to jump a rabbit & anything that distracts them from their hunting like a cold trailer is disruptive.
GWyoung, As long as you enjoy your hounds & like the way they run, don't let us guys that promote more brains in a dog bother you. By the way, the Mid-West trials are ran in the wild, no pens.