toughest to run and why,hare cottontail,swampers?

[Shady Grove Beagles]

I know that a "good" beagle should be able to run all three.Right? But I'd be curious to hear your opinions on which you think is the toughest for your hounds to run.
I've been fortunate in my years of beagling to have had the opportunity to run a fair amount on all three.
I lived in northern New England for 21 years hunting New Hampshire,Maine and Vermont where it was hare only.The past 20 years in middle and east Tennessee with cottontails only and have made many trips out to west Tn.,the Mississippi Delta and Louisiana to hunt the swampers or cane cutters.
I know that most folks breed their dogs to excel on their home grounds on the game where they hunt and or trial.Given that it makes sense that to me they would perform best there.
I want to share my observations and understand others will probably have different opinions but that's the reason for the post.So lets here what you all are thinking.
To me,I think bare ground hare are probably the easiest for my dogs to run well [not talking snow here as that's a whole different ball game !]. They are a big rabbit with big feet,usually live in a environment that tends to be fairly moist/shaded,at times wet,leave more scent,run more straight as opposed to lots of zig zags,doubles,squats,etc.They depend more on speed and stamina than on trickery.
Over the past 20 years I've made a lot of trips north with young hounds that have never run a hare before and hounds that are run almost exclusively on cottontails and have never had any problem with them being able to run hare well.I run some upper fast speed hounds that originate from hare breeding.I've had no experience with the slower conservative U.B.G.F. type hounds on hare.I have seen some dogs with less foot and/or not in hard running shape fall behind or drop out of a long several hour hare chase.
Cottontails.The smallest of the three species and from my experience I would say probably put out the least amount of scent.Here in the south anyways they often live in an environment that can be very dry,hot and quite often are found in the thickest,brier choked,impenetrable cover and will sit tight to the point of a dog having to literally put their nose on them at times.Then throw in their running style of a natural zig zag pattern,frequent doubles,squatting,sharp turns causing checks and cris crossing their running area multiple times laying line over lines.Makes the "little"bunnies pretty challenging at times !And yes,I have seen some of the more conservative type beagles make the harder hitting types look kind of foolish on those tip toeing/sneaking rabbits.
I know the Mid-West Assoc. is full of hare bred hounds that do a super job on cottontails.I have friends that have brought their hare bred and run exclusively on hare hounds down here to hunt with me and they do a very acceptable job and most times mine do a fine job on them also.
But,I have seen some northern hare bred beagles that really just didn't look very good on the cottontails.Given time hounds should adapt and make the necessary adjustments to transition but truth is some never do.I've owned a couple that just didn't have the gears.Sent them north and they made good hounds on hare.
You may not agree,but I think it is much easier for the hound raised,trained and run on cottontail to go north and excel on hare than for the hound raised,trained and run on hare to excel when run on cottontail.
Swampers/cane cutters.Saved these guys for last because for me and my hounds these rabbits are the toughest challenge.Like the hare they are a big rabbit [in fact I've shot swampers that are bigger than most hare],live in a wet environment,leave a lot of scent,tend to run big like a hare but have a whole different bag of tricks than the cottontail.Their main defense is WATER and boy will they make use of it!I've hunted along sloughs where you jump a swamper and within ten feet of being jumped he'll sail off the bank and hit the water and be swimming away like a muskrat.Seen them take water and float down a canal on the current and come out a hundred feet down stream on the opposite bank.Swim out to a grass hummock in the slough and crouch there while dogs swim within feet of him and never move.Or sink themselves down in the water motionless with only their nose and eyes above water. AND, they can climb up in a low hanging tree too!
I would guess that guys that live and hunt in areas with swampers have hounds that are well adapted to these rabbits.But for me and probably 90% of the rest of us not many beagles are used to having to swim and pull scent off of water to pursue their game.
Usually when I go to the bottoms to run swampers my hounds don't look so good the first day,getting better the second day and the third day have figured things out when the rabbits hit the water.A good hound should make the transition where ever he is but for me the swampers are the toughest to run and excel at.
And as always JMHO.

[Aubrey Holcombe]

Very interesting and well said, Bossman I enjoyed reading your Experience, I have never had the opportunity to run those Big White, Goosesteps, of the Cold Country.

A man with your knowledge about Rabbits and Hair knows that the South's Swampers are also a Hair. I love running them Big Bad boys myself ! What all you said about them floating down stream is one of their very best tricks, and not many hounds can master that one.

D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>

[Pine Lakes]

Unfortunately, I cannot speak of running swampers, but I will someday soon. However, I do agree with your statement that it is easier for dogs trained and run on cottontail to run a hare as opposed to the opposite. The problem I had in LP trials is conditioning. I just don't think that you can run enough cottontails over any period of time to prepare your hounds for a 4 hour, high flying marathon on hare. I also found that dogs run on cottontail stayed a little too close in a check in the LP trials I attended. You should know that was several years ago in MI when the most emphasis was put on speed at that time IMO. It impresses the heck out of me when a dog like FC Weir's Ready Rock Ripper can win a LP trial on hare one weekend and take a 2nd on cottontail in SPO the next. The same can be said of the great IFC Branko's Heli-Prop. There are others, but those 2 come to my mind immediately. Excellent post!

[Casey Harner]

Never ran hare before but I will say running swampers is by far one of the most enjoyable hunts I've been on. Your right when you say, the bag of tricks they pull, like jumping onto of fallen trees or old stumps. Then you got the water. I believe the dogs are real tuckered out after a long running swamper who rather swim than run.

[S.R.Patch]

Due to good friends I've been lucky enough to run all three, We've had great races on all three and poor races on all three. The season and scenting test the hounds limits more than anything imho.
Hare will test the hounds athleticism, heart and courage, that's what I look for when running hare. The coalmine rabbits are the best we have for conditioning and the hills and pit walls will put a strain on the body but I've found hounds in their prime 2-6 yr old have no trouble going up to run hare for the week if they've are athletes with hunt nose & desire. We ran and killed some big swamper down in La. but I don't think their labeled as a hare scientifically. We hunted a pine plantation of a paper mill that bordered a swamp only separated by a 100yrd strip of hardwoods, that was the only place open and high enough ground to see and get off a shot. I've only hunted swampers for that one week at that one area, so I know first impressions can be miss leading. I've sent some hound to Ga. to run swampers and most of the replies came back as ' they do good and seem to have a gear our hounds don't have as they will run head high and carry a good lead tasting the air for scent". I agree, sport hounds introduced on cottontail before hare seem to learn patience and a craft for figuring out problems. Some of the young hounds we've taken up to run hare have become spoilt with their fox-like way of going distance and find it hard to settle back down to running cottontail again, most do but some seemingly can't return to the levelheadedness they had before, so I say they've become spoilt.
I can't say in all honesty that one is harder or easier to run,... you cherish the good days and hope the effort and ability of your hounds has some glimmer, even on the bad days. When you put their cold wet hides back in the dogbox and can say "good job guy, we'll get'em next time", there is solace to carry you until the next hunt.

[snowshoehareguide]

can your dogs run a hare on crust,no tracks visible, when its zero, 25 degrees and freezing rain-- dry snow and 25 below- 50 degrees and poring rain on melted crust - thats describes a 3 day hunt here recently-- - never in my life have i seen swings in weather and conditions --- 25 below to 50 above and back again-- in two days---- one hunt saw every condition possible except dust -lol

yesterday ran almost without a check - couple days ago ,, one circle took hours- freezing rain on crust -- almost no running at all -



ive never run swampers but would love to someday---- its all about conditions with hare

average beagles can not smell a hare when conditions are bad- and conditions are bad alot- where hare live-- lot of experts on hare make a few trips in spring and fall- --- got to be here all winter to know what im talking about ---

i see many "cottontail dogs" run great on hare- id even prefer them on bare ground and crust -- ive seen them act like thyre drowning in deep snow- -- i havent even seen any deep snow this year -- and not alot in recent years- but we used to get a couple months of very deep snow and cold ,, that takes a diferent dog--


thursday i advised my hunters to reschedule-- -- we had roads closed and houses being evacuated-due to flooding--- they came anyway-- dropped 30 degrees and snowed overnite --- running was great--- getting thru cedar swamps was kind of tough-- water came up - froze and then dropped again-- busting thru top layer of ice every step tracking collars had 4 inches of ice build up - had to clean the ice off of them--- new snow ,,temps in teens-- ,,yup was a lot of big stinky hare- - below zero this morning -- they might not smell so strong at first this morning its going to warm 30 degrees again today -no worries lol this is pic of yesterday--- lot of whining about too many hare to carry--- i dont here that everday lol - dont like the conditions just wait a minute -

[outrider66]

Snowshoe average beagles cannot run a cottontail when conditions are bad either ! I hunt areas that get hunted heavily and I have heard more packs of dogs this year
that cant run a rabbit off the jump on bad days than ever before ! I am fortunate to have a good coldnosed beagle that can get it done when other dogs in my area cant!
as far as which type of rabbit is the toughest ? I would say they all are or will be if a hunter pursues ethier year round !

[sbeagler]

NICE STORY DANA SAME EXPERIENCE WITH THE THREE . SOD AND HARE CAN BE BLISTERING RUN LOVE IT BUT ENJOY THEM ALL

[bluemouse]

Never run a white bunny but would love to give it a try. I have ran the other two over the years and both have their sporting traits. But you guys are missing out on the bunny that will give you both crazy tricks, swimming, take off straight line runs you name it they will do it. Its the marsh rabbits of the low country if you don't mind bleeding a little while wading through the water then this is a rabbit you need to give a try.

[Ron Conroe]

What about the one that eludes us all, the tricky ghost rabbit. Have not shot one yet but if my dog keeps running him I will get a shot sooner or later.

[bluemouse]

Only way to nail a ghost rabbit is with a blue streak double barrel sling shot.

[snowshoehareguide]

been hunting ghost rabbits off n on for years=i havent been able to shoot one yet either -- = kind of tough to identify a dog thats trailing pure ghosts --sometimes guys dont see them , but they leave tracks-- -- those are invisible rabbits--- they mostly get by you when way ahead of dogs seems like they cant stay invisible as easily when dogs pushing them harder --
white hare on snow in thick cover , if he can just take his time--very easy for him to appear invisible=-

- my mutts will often switch back n forth ghost rabbits to invisible rabbits to just a ordinary one --

[John Way]

No difference to pursuit of any rabbit / hare species with respect to degree of difficulty . Every day decides its own fate. Now the ghost rabbit takes a special talent. My old Bill gyp was the best at it. Huge nose to cold trail or run in the toughest of conditions , dry or cold. On any other decent running day she would circle the spirit ( a true ghost trail ) of a harvested rabbit. At times ,Both directions for a complete circle. Victory laps We use to call them. Lol. She ended up making a nice house pet for a senior lady.

[mn_beagleboy]

I run rabbit a lot more than hare and have no knowledge of swamper. If conditions are the same, hare is 3x more fun to run. Any medium fast cottontail that could run on snow will be able to run hare. I seen hare hound have problem running cottontail. They tend to over run almost every turn. Dogs need time to run new game. Some take days while other take month. A versatile dog will adjust to it's game and condition. Beagle is one of the most versatile breed.

[outrider66]

Snowshoehareguide great post ! I get it !