FLAVOR OF THE MONTH

[sammiller03]

I will add that I championed some of those dogs in little pack , but none of their ancestors were trialed in any format to my knowledge within six generations.

[LaMarr Rhoades]

Yeah,I've seen several that were Little Pack Champions.

Anyone else own dogs that don't have any Champions within their 4-5 generation pedigree?

[outrider66]

Does it make a better cross if they have fc in there pedigree ????

[LaMarr Rhoades]

Maybe,Maybe not. Just seems like there's a few guys that talk negative about field trials and field champions,but yet they probably own a kennel full of field champion bred hounds,just doesn't make sense,kinda hypocritical.

I'm not sayin a dog has to be a field champion to be any good,hell I've seen some real good grade dogs,and I'm not sayin someone has to be a field trialer to be a houndsmen,Experience an endless hours in the field is what makes a houndsmen, but the fact of the matter is the majority of us own field champion bred dogs,I assume we all like what we own or we wouldn't own them,so to get on here an make negative comments about trials an champions is ridiculous,if you don't like trials then don't go,if you don't like field champions then don't own champion bred dogs,problem solved.

[Newt]

LR beaglers choosing a FC for Stud is all about the rewards from advertising. If Frank Reese had not gambled and placed an Ad of Gay Baker for $25.00 in Hounds and Hunting, who would have known about Baker. Frank was a good talker and a good promoter. People are still using his promotions to breed worthless dogs today. Don't misunderstand my statement. Reese and others produced some good dogs using his blood line. The real breeders don't need the "Gay" name to sell their dogs. However, there are folks, I won't call them beaglers', who are just breeding pedigrees with "Gay" for several generations, that never test them in the field.
It takes a few years to figure out what traits are necessary to achieve your goal in breeding. IMO, if you want to Trial, if that is your game, then by all means find a producer of Field Champions in the format you like. Traditional Brace, UBGF, PBGF, and Mid West, all are awarded the title AKC, Field Champion. The bar is constantly being changed according the desires of a few, then the sheep fall in line.
When the Gun Dog movement started, due to the lack of hunt in the Field Champions of the Day, Ted Roberts, in Ky, Frank Reese in NC, andTom Dornin in Virginia were all encouraging a system of Trials for Gun Dogs. In the Gundog Trial infancy, I attended a few gundog trials in Kentucky and Georgia and placed my Gay Baker bitch. Then the Gundog Trials got recognition by the AKC. A short time later, I took my bitch to a Gundog Trial in Georgia. I got out of the truck, and was surprised to see nothing but old Traditional Brace Trialers. What Happened?? I entered my bitch, when her number "17" was called, I set her down with the pack. She hadn't ran more than fifty feet when the judge yelled, "pick up number 17". I put her in the truck and continued to watch. The rabbit continued to run and ran down a road about a 100 ft. When the pack got to the road I noticed one of the old Brace dogs stopped at the last track and just barked for about twenty seconds and never moved. He was not picked up.
What happened, Trialers trial, and that is their passion. What ever is winning, then that is the best of the best, in their opinion. Hunters hunt. If a dog can't/won't jump and run long enough give him a shot then the dog is history as a gundog.
If a dog doesn't have a super nose in the bad scenting conditions of the Snow Country, may as well stay at home. Those hunters are in a constant search for better noses.
Where I live, if a dog won't get into the briars and brambles and search, better buy some briar proof clothing or get another dog. If a dog can't run a twisting back tracking cottontail in thick cover, better get another dog.
The last trial that I attended, the ground was frozen and it was on a cold frosty morning. There were eighteen dogs entered. Not a rabbit was circled. There were at least a dozen rabbits jumped in sight of the gallery. The packs would run the rabbit until it changed direction. Then they would continue chasing the lead dog for for a hundred feet or so, lose and not have clue where they last smelled a line of scent. I talked to the owner of one to the dogs entered that day, that later became a Field Champion. He was a "Flavor of the Month" for about a year. He may still be at stud producing dogs just like himsef. I lost interest so I seldom bother looking at trial results any more.
Those are just my opinions and observations. Run and Trial what you like.

[LaMarr Rhoades]

Of course there are tough days when the dogs struggle to run a rabbit at field trials,there are also tough days when gun hunting,there's also tough days when pleasure running.The few guys that are always trying to point out negative things about field trials,the same things can be said about gun hunting situations an pleasure running,no dog is perfect but some are definitely better than others.The majority of beaglers today own field champion bred dogs including you,surely we don't all own junk?

Some field champions don't produce well,I'm pretty sure everyone already knows that,there's also some gun hunter's dogs that don't produce,there's even some pleasure runner's dogs that don't produce well either. Fact is the field champions get all the attention (good & bad) because their put out there for everyone to see,if a dog does well in the trials an folks like what they see some might breed to that dog,what's wrong with that? If a gun hunter/pleasure runner sees his buddy's dog continue to do a good job every time they go hunting an he breeds to his buddy's dog then good for him.Some dogs produce an some don't,but I don't blame anybody for breeding to a dog that's kicking butt at the trials,some might call it breeding to the flavor of the month,I call it taking a chance on a Butt Kicker an hoping he produces,some will an some wont but you don't know until you try.

[Hare Chaser]

When I find folks that hunt the same dogs they place consistently with in trials in my area, there's a good chance they are a respectable hare/rabbit hound. Especially if they place under several different judges. Many in the LPOH circuit have specific dogs they enter in a trial based on who the judge is. To me that is just working the system and indicates to me that placing the hound is more important than having a hound that functions as close as possible to the rule book..........which according to AKC is designed to describe the ideal hunting beagle.

Sadly, many of the highly touted/advertised titled hounds are not hunted much if at all. The field champion title would carry far more weight for me if before that title was given, the dog had to be taken to the woods with a licensed trial judge to view the dog running a hare/rabbit for a minimum of an hour solo. It wood already have proven it could run with a pack in the trials it was entered in. Now let's see the same hound have to jump and circle its own game without benefit of other pack mates. The true gun dog can do it alone or in company in my book and if they can't they don't get fed or bred here.

[Newt]

LR said: "The majority of beaglers today own field champion bred dogs including you, surely we don't all own junk?"


Sure I own "junk" in the eyes of some beaglers. That 's where the friction starts. My "Gay Baker" Bitch was "junk" in the opinion of the Georgia Judges. The "Potterer" that stood in one place and barked was "junk" in my opinion. Should I raise dogs that appealed to the Georgia Judge or ones that I like.

[LaMarr Rhoades]

Obviously you should keep dogs that you like,sounds like your pretty fond of these.

I had a FC Bucks Branch Kalagha, Trudy (now deceased)and bred her back FC Bucks Branch Englebert, and got Bertie. Both good bitches, but the best bitch that I have ever owned, Trudy's grandmother, was a grand daughter of FC Sunkenland's Sparky.

[fulcount]

Hare chaser you are right on the dogs should be judged according to the rules in the book
and not by what a judge likes personally there is too much of "this judge likes this type hound and that judge likes that kind
of hound the judges have to get on the same page and start judging by the book
which we must presume was explained to them at the various seminars not their own preferences
if they cant do that they should Not be judging my hound or yours unfortunately
in LPOH today I believe the rule book is never read once most judges leave the seminar

I agree the hounds that finish should be judged running solo in order
to become a FC in any format by 2 judges too many finish for their title
especially in LPOH by working off the pack time and again

John O

[warddog]

LR said: "The majority of beaglers today own field champion bred dogs including you, surely we don't all own junk?"


Sure I own "junk" in the eyes of some beaglers. That 's where the friction starts. My "Gay Baker" Bitch was "junk" in the opinion of the Georgia Judges. The "Potterer" that stood in one place and barked was "junk" in my opinion. Should I raise dogs that appealed to the Georgia Judge or ones that I like.

And AGAIN the discussion comes full circle back to OPINIONS as I have stated numerous times. Regardless of what format or rules one is competing under it boils down to the OFFICIAL JUDGE(s) making THEIR opinion of what is the best in THEIR eyes. Whether folks like it or not it is the case be it beagling or coon hunting if we are going to be real about it. YES, in many types of trials such as UKC coon hound competition as I have read and seen in UKC beagle trails there is a very specific set of written objectives to met for scoring of the hounds. TRUTH is the objectives being met are considered by the one judging them and almost ALL rules state the judges DECISION is final. Newt explained it quite well in his description of how the judge viewed his dog's ability to met the specific objective(s) but got picked up and the others who were still in the competition. YES, there is good, bad and in between in trialing, hunting and pleasure running BUT the difference is those being hunted and pleasure ran are being done so by owners who judge their dogs by what satisfies THEIR liking or what works in their specific terrain. Most are not looking for others to judge if they have the best dog out there because they know and understand that dogs are dogs some good, some bad and some are at the top of their game one day and not worth a plug nickel the next. I tried trialing and eventually got out of it because I came to the REALIZATION that any time I ELECTED to spend my time and money to put my hound into a compeititon I was asking for someone to judge or give THEIR opinion of which dog was best under their purview.

[fulcount]

Judges are not hired to give their OPINIONS but to judge what runs best accorrding to a set of rules
on a givrn day its not an OPINION but a fact as to what the hound is doing they are hired to judge
in a objective and honest manner according to these rules if they have to give their OPINONS they are not seeing
enough hound work to make an OBJECTIVE JUDGEMENT
you can try to make an argument as to judging by OPINION but you are dead wrong in that thinking
the judges should see enough hound work to evaluate them and not give their OPINIONS

John O

[sparky]

Judges are not hired to give their OPINIONS but to judge what runs best accorrding to a set of rules
on a givrn day its not an OPINION but a fact as to what the hound is doing they are hired to judge
in a objective and honest manner according to these rules if they have to give their OPINONS they are not seeing
enough hound work to make an OBJECTIVE JUDGEMENT
you can try to make an argument as to judging by OPINION but you are dead wrong in that thinking
the judges should see enough hound work to evaluate them and not give their OPINIONS

John O

Well said

[South Woods kennel]

Hare Chaser you can come gun my FCs solo next winter if ya want. Show ya some trialers do hunt their FC's.

[Hare Chaser]

Hare Chaser you can come gun my FCs solo next winter if ya want. Show ya some trialers do hunt their FC's.

I know there are some that do and I respect them for it. My guess is that guys like you are not in the majority though. If I lived closer I'd love to come see your hounds go. I don't trial but don't have anything against those that do. I'm one that believes that many of the trialers over the years have greatly improved some of our present day hounds. Though just as with the coon hounds, the title and trophies seem to have overshadowed the traits of what I see as true pleasure hounds. Try and find a line of good coon hounds that can still take a track a couple hours old and work it in to a running track while open trailing according to the track and one that will check in occasionally while hunting.