Re: FLAVOR OF THE MONTH
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:57 am
A good post Shady could not have said it better myself
in a few words LOL
John O
in a few words LOL
John O
http://americanbeagler.huntingboards.com/
http://americanbeagler.huntingboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=101431
How far back? Almost every beagle that is registered accurately will have Field Champions and maybe show Champions if you go back far enough.LaMarr Rhoades wrote:How many of ya'll own dogs that don't have any field champions in their pedigree?
Shady, I agree with what you have posted 100%. I will also say that you and I must be of the same generation as my trialing experience came from the coon hound world over many years and in fact my first real hounds were out of ole "Finley River Chief!" Yes, I know and have hunted against many of those you named including Dave Deans Northern Blue Hammer until I could not count as high as there were Northern Blue Hammers. I was just involved in a similar thread not long ago and folks tried to make the case that one can not have any knowledge of what trials are about UNLESS they have actually participated and or judged them specifically. That takes me to your above reply of REALLY, REALLY ...! A trial is a competition of man against man using the dogs as tools and minus a set of objective steadfast standards it is relegated to opinion. The so-called Steadfast standards are then also left to personal opinion of what an individual witnessed and whether they like it or not subject to what they like or dislike. In the coon hunting world one would think that the written objective point system of determining the best of a cast whether plus, minus or circle would be absolutely cut and dried, leaving nothing to opinion..................WRONG! I have witnessed judges go deaf and blind at the drop of a hat and then miraculously gain tunnel vision so that they could see inside a hole in a tree. You make very good points and back them with documentation to bolster what you claim and I agree with it all. Of course I have been told I am not considered an experienced beagler and I guess that derives from me not attending many beagle trials even though I have actually followed hounds for 55+ years. I have judged many a hounds in my time and NEVER have I had to run behind one to know whether it was fit for me to feed or not and if I have to I don't need the hound! I also agree that I have always line bred hounds although I believe that making a cross is like spinning a roulette wheel, having the genetics of a specific line narrows the possibilities of getting those traits we are looking for BUT it also allows for the ones we are NOT looking for to pop to the top, maybe even back more than several geneartions! Keep posting Shady as I am picking up what you are lying down just like I would with E.F. Hutton!Shady Grove Beagles wrote:Hey Sparkey
Having you on here it's almost like having a pen pal.LOL.
I totally agree with you in regards to the importance of field trials and Field champions bringing forth top performing hounds in to the public's eye so they can be used for breeding.
I also am in total agreement to the influence they have and do play in the sport of beagling and the education value of helping us all to evaluate blood lines.
Be that as it may,I can relate to mybeagles when he states " truth be told,I don't really care for field trials...... I'd rather run dogs all weekend".My sentiments exactly !!
Before folks jump all over me and think I don't know what the trialing scene is all about .When I got out of the tree hounds and competition Nite Hunting and back in to beagles in 1992 I traveled around the Large Pack on Hare trial circuit a fair amount in New Hampshire,Vermont,Maine and Massachusetts.Even won the New Hampshire-Vermont Association Derby Championship Trial one year.
Moved to Tennessee in 1995 and soon got my A.R.H.A. Little Pack judges license and then my Master of Hounds license. Judged regularly at the three clubs in middle Tn. and have judged casts at the Tennessee,Kentucky and Mississippi State Hunts and served as the Master of Hounds at a State hunt.
Newt in his recent post made a tongue-in-cheek joke that actually hit home to me and kind of has to do with the mind set of some who have posted here and a mind set that I've seen often in other threads.
That being that if you are not a field trialer,a winner of field trials or at least a participant in field trials,don't have Field Trial Champions,pups out of Field Trial Champions,have never judged a field trial, never really put your dog to the "test" in a field trial,etc.,etc. than you can't possibly have a clue or any idea at all about what a top dog or even a GOOD dog is.
REALLY ? REALLY ? Those that appear to believe that, are ya all really serious? How totally puffed-up,self serving and lame that thinking is !
In the past nine years I've entered a total of four trials,In 2007 I entered a young female that had never been to a trial in her life in the Southern Large Pack Championship at Mel Faust's in Louisiana.After six hours of running she took a 4'th.In 2011 I entered three females that had never ever been trialed in Claremont New Hampshire's Beagle Club's Licensed Large Pack on Hare Trial where we ran the hounds for 8 1/2 hours before they called field trial.I took 1'st and 3'rd and my other female stayed down in the winners pack but did not place.The other two trials were Mid-West trials where they judged on horseback.I brought a nice young female that had never ever seen a horse before and she just couldn't handle the horses running near her.My fault .
Because I'm no trialer could I not see what the hounds were doing?Did the results not speak for themselves?Did my hounds pass the test?
At the risk of bursting somebody's bubble.If you were to do the research you'd find that beagle trialing is not the epicenter of beagling that some seem to think it is.In America just plain rabbit gun hunters and pleasure runners whether it be cottontails,hare or swampers FAR,FAR,FAR out number those who participate in beagle field trials.I would guess that the number of folks who actively trial beagles is a very small percentage of those who keep beagles for pursueing rabbits .Heck,last time I saw stats on it from A.K.C. I believe that the Traditional Brace entries still out number both the Large Pack and S.P.O. entries.And T.B. aren't even REAL hunting dogs !
There are many,many long time ,dedicated and knowledgeable houndsmen who have NEVER been to or participated in any kind of a field trial !
My friend Harechaser from N.H. is one of the most knowledgeable houndsmen I know of concerning tree hounds and beagles used on hare and especially those that qualify as a true "snow hound" and he's never entered a trial.The fellow he has coon hunted and hare hunted with for years and knows more about hounds than most has never entered a trial.Fellows I know and hare hunt with in New Hampshire and Maine own some very nice hounds and have never entered any trials.Back in the day most all the coon hunters I knew hunted for hides and the check at the fur buyer's shed and laughed at those who chased"those plastic trophies".They never entered competition hunts.The old fellows that I cat and bear hunted with for years never needed any trials to tell them what dog would pull hair and put the bear in the tree.Most of the beaglers I run into around here have nothing to do with field trials.In fact over the years it has been my experience that many,many beaglers have expressed the thoughts or feelings that they don't want anything to do with field trial beagles.
I witnessed a State Hunt where the dog was crowned State Champion and they never ran a rabbit in the final cast.Hunting and handling.And owner now had bragging rights.
An A.K.C. trial where no dogs could put a circle on the rabbit that day but 1-NBQ. was awarded and a win and points were taken home.
Been to more than one A.K.C. field trial where the hounds rioted on deer and handlers scattered throughout the woods trying to catch them.At the end of the day there was a hound with his first place win and points toward his champion degree.
When I ran Large Pack on Hare trials I can't begin to tell you how many big name trialers and big name trialing hounds had NEVER EVER been run outside of a fenced enclosure or EVER had a rabbit killed in front of them !
I can take you to one of the biggest field trial winning kennels here in Tn. that have two of those storage buildings that the Menonites sell [the big ones ] absolutely packed with trophies and ribbons,plaques,clocks and every other symbol of winning there is.And you know what? Those folks don't hunt at all.
Haven't for years ! Most of their champion hounds have NEVER heard a shotgun or seen a dead rabbit !
Now I know I'm just an old guy on a rant here....... but when I see and hear some folks say that unless you are judging your hounds by field trialing you haven't put them to the "test" and how can you "Know" if they are any good or not?Too many scenarios like those mentioned for me to take every hound with F.C. before his name as quality.
And John O. The reason my posts have gotten so long lately as a dues paying member of the AFL-CIO union member of the Tennessee Fiction writers guild and under contract to this inter-net site I am required to generate a certain amount of material for which Iam payed for by the word.And payed for quite handsomely I might ad.LOL.
As always,anything and everything is JMHO.
LaMarr Rhoades wrote:Just curious if any of ya'll currently own dogs that don't have any field champions within 4 or 5 generations of their pedigree?