A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
rridzon wrote: Curious what line do you run 66? Well said Mr. Wells.
I have some ( all line bred ) ninja , some (all line bred) awful bawlin & some( all line bred) smokes creek ! most of them are farmed out into the hands of some good
houndsmen !I got 2 at the house , what do you run ? I like the ninja stuff I got the best ! but they all have there own weakness imo ! some lines are better at one thing than
the others. after all we are just talking about a dog running a rabbit ! not rocket science here just dogs ! they all have weakness ! but the ninja stuff is the direction I will follow.
My attitude too rhoward!! There is not one thing you can do, short of cheating, to make your dog win once they are cast. It depends on the rabbit, does the judge see it, the location, the other dogs in the cast and how the breaks fall. These factors cannot be controlled, so relax and have a good time. If you have a decent dog, you'll win your share.
Larry
LP R Ch Quick Strike Go Go Boots
LP R Ch Quick Strike Big Red
If your fast dog is going over the end and creating a check its a fault. There are always going to be checks in a run but you expect a check at a change in direction of the rabbit. Some dogs just have a check because they are trying to outrun the other dogs. To me that's a fault. Anything that keeps the pack from running fairly smooth is a fault......dh
There isn't much that changes when it comes to a beagle pursuing a rabbit. But there's always gonna be a difference in preference,some like fast dogs some like slow dogs,some like a lot of control some aren't that concerned with control,some like a mouthy dog others like a tight mouth dog. Of course we all want our dogs to accomplish running the rabbit back around to us,but why not have dogs that can do it with speed,control,and a accurate mouth. Instead of accomplishment over style,why not accomplishment with style
good dogs run on good days,great dogs run when u take them out
Right, a good dog will learn how to run a rabbit more efficiently with experience and develop a certain routine or style of controlling the line & working a check. They will change their speed as conditions change. There are times when all has been done to find the check close to the point of loss that a hound should reach out farther and try to save the rabbit chase & if he does , he should be rewarded & not given a demerit for changing his style of close checkwork. A good hound will always know where the point of loss is & will try to find the check close first, but has enough brains to know when it is time to spread & search wider. On a double back they may have to go a good distance before they find the true line. If they don't find it in a few minutes, they come back to the point of loss & try to work it out again.
Wells Woods Kennel Greg Wells
R.I.P. FC Brent's Prime Time FC Wells' Silver Spring FCGD Wells Woods Valentine
Lamarr
I believe SPEED WITH CONTROL is accomplishment over style
No where in the judges book ,for AKCanyway,does it say a judge should judge a dog on his preferences
but it does spell out the good the bad and the ugly to judge by
this has been beaten to death on this board many times
John O. you are right this subject has been beat to death on here. Time and time again it goes back to a couple different things.
1. someone thinks they got screwed at an event (regardless of format)
2. Someone doesn't like a certain style of hound (regardless of style)
3. someone thinks they have the best dog that ever lived and wants to justify keeping it.
I am sure there are more but these always seem to come up. Here is the long and short of it. Run the kind of dog you like and do not care what anyone else thinks unless you truly are willing to be honest about your hounds capabilities. If you do not like a specific format or judge don't enter your hound. We all think our hounds are good or we would not keep them but, if this is not the case? You cannot fix what you will not recognize as a problem.
JMHO
Tom Summers
fulcount wrote:No where in the judges book ,for AKC anyway,does it say a judge should judge a dog on his preferences
I wasn't talking about what a judges preference is at a trial,I was talking about what people's personal preferences are. I agree with you,judges should judge a trial by the book,not their personal preference.
good dogs run on good days,great dogs run when u take them out
"I agree with you,judges should judge a trial by the book,not their personal preference." Amen!! I haven't seen it very often, but it does come up. The rule book should be the only criteria for judging. A lot of judges, at the bigger hunts, have never seen our dogs run. My champion dog is either all in and does well or he's all out. Not much middle ground. And that's okay. I'll take a minus over a zero any day of the week!! At least he's trying. A judge may not like a dog with extra mouth, but that shouldn't affect his judging.
Larry
LP R Ch Quick Strike Go Go Boots
LP R Ch Quick Strike Big Red
I think it means in certain situations a hound needs to do what is necessary to keep the chase alive & not be bound to a style that would hinder this. This doesn't mean a hound can be extremely faulty as long as he accomplishes something.
Wells Woods Kennel Greg Wells
R.I.P. FC Brent's Prime Time FC Wells' Silver Spring FCGD Wells Woods Valentine
One thing I have noticed that some judges that I use to judge will let a hound get by with popping his mouth during a loss of contact with the line. Say a dog has the check & is moving the track, but during a short loss of contact with the line, they keep barking while they are looking for the turn. I think a dog should only open when they are actually on the track & moving it forward. This distracts the other hounds & should be a serious demerit in my opinion. You want to develop a pack of honest hounds that can trust each other enough to know when they give tongue they are moving the line & should hark to them immediately. Too much extra mouth without moving the track is unacceptable & will hinder progress more than you think. I think they should be picked up if they do this continually. This has a little to do with the accomplishment over style subject because the style of a babbling mouthed hound will hinder a smooth running pack; even though the hound may find the check occasionally, the fault of a lot of unnecessary extra mouth out weighs the hound's accomplishments.
Wells Woods Kennel Greg Wells
R.I.P. FC Brent's Prime Time FC Wells' Silver Spring FCGD Wells Woods Valentine
WELLS WOODS wrote:One thing I have noticed that some judges that I use to judge will let a hound get by with popping his mouth during a loss of contact with the line. Say a dog has the check & is moving the track, but during a short loss of contact with the line, they keep barking while they are looking for the turn. I think a dog should only open when they are actually on the track & moving it forward. This distracts the other hounds & should be a serious demerit in my opinion. You want to develop a pack of honest hounds that can trust each other enough to know when they give tongue they are moving the line & should hark to them immediately. Too much extra mouth without moving the track is unacceptable & will hinder progress more than you think. I think they should be picked up if they do this continually. This has a little to do with the accomplishment over style subject because the style of a babbling mouthed hound will hinder a smooth running pack; even though the hound may find the check occasionally, the fault of a lot of unnecessary extra mouth out weighs the hound's accomplishments.
For the most part I can agree with this statement and it is ALWAYS what I would want in a perfect world. However, if you live in country where from late December into early March where you can be faced with running hare in 12" plus of dry powder snow with temps from below zero to the single numbers above you would quickly gain an ability to put up with a little extra mouth. By the way, did you know that there are dogs that have nose enough to draw scent from the line when they may not have there nose right on it? A good judge in my mind will give some grace to the dog that has the ability to keep the run alive and tolerate a little extra mouth as long as they aren't calling the pack away from the check area. The end goal in every trial should be to pick the best dogs for that day that would have circled the most game to the gun under the conditions the day presented. While it is true there may be days when conditions are so bad that seemingly no dog deserves to win, this happens with every gun dog on occasion. When done right, with an honest team of good judges the end result is the best dogs of the day win. Trialing isn't for everyone, including me, yet a true Field Champion awarded the title under honest judges will prove to be an acceptable gun dog for most. Show me the perfect hound and you'll' see the perfect human on the other end of the leash. We all know that won't happen!
Curious what line do you run 66? Well said Mr. Wells.
