top ten--in worst conditions--

[ohlinger]

I wouldn't hunt with a dog that needed constant attention to keep it from leaving the country. We have a field Marshall to work the dogs in right direction. This is generally very effective. I keep track of hounds and will engage a handler to retrieve a stray hound. I think it's faulty for a hound to instantly reach 400+ yards without searching the immediate area. Typical of hounds that get dropped off in enclosures and picked up later for conditioning purposes.

I think it's distracting to hard hunting hounds to have handlers scattered around hollering tally-ho trying to persuade lazy dogs to get off the path.

As you know when you enter a hound you relinquish control of your hounds for evaluation....the way I see it some handlers are maintaining complete control and even slipping their dogs a quick line at times. I want handlers to play as little a roll as possible.

Great minds think alike...sounds like you'd be a judge i'd agree with or enjoy evaluating my hounds....handlers relinquish control for evaluation that is EXACTLY right...cheers buddy. Handlers thrashing about and encouraging lazy dogs is distracting to dogs that will go find there own rabbit. with out a jump there is no chase...if rabbits are thin I "might" ask for handlers to help find one...but i'm pretty sure I can find one if need be I'd prefer work the hounds myself...so I can continue evaluating. but I'm not an a.k.c judge.

[WELLS WOODS]

It's easier said than done; judging I mean. A judge wants to be able to see enough running out of each hound to be able to make good decisions. Judges should tell the handlers to hang back for a few minutes while the judges watch their hunt. If they are satisfied with their hunt, then let the handlers help work the hounds & try to jump a rabbit. This is the only way to do it in order to have enough time to give each pack a good, honest evaluation. If a dog refuses to hunt, they should be picked up before a rabbit is jumped. We are supposed to be promoting the best hunting dogs. Dogs that won't hunt are useless. I think the hunt is getting better in the Mid-West. The top sire, Oliver is producing tons of hunt. This blood will add more natural hunt to our hounds. Dino puts hunt in his pups also; along with Chester, Ohio Reggie, Lucky, Colonel & Switch. These are some of the top producers right now in the Mid-West. A true FC should have an abundance of hunt & be able to jump rabbits.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

ohlinger
Just got done reading your earlier post and boy does it make sense to me and bring back a remembrance of a dog exactly like the one you were mentioning.
This female was out of Ray Simoneau's F.C. Log Cabin Ray x Briarpatch Chelsea Lady from Roy Kennedy's breeding.Both Ray and Chelsea were considered good north country snow hounds.
Ray had quite the reputation in Vermont,New Hampshire,Maine and pretty much all around the Large Pack on Hare trialing circuit as a hound that could run in any conditions and I'd heard the stories about him taking hare across solid ice and frozen crust conditions, running a track at a winter trial when no other dog could open,etc.
Sounds like just what you want in a hound right? Be careful what you wish for.
Here in Tn. this hound drove me crazy !! I got her as a just under a year old unstarted hound and she started early and easily on wild cottontails and then was run regularly with some pretty decent hounds that did a nice job on the cottontails.
As ohlinger mentioned in his post ,my hound on a "good" rabbit could get up and roll with plenty of foot,would have been considered hard hitting and generally operated in true"hare hound"style.
Problem was, that her genetics gave her a superior nose and the mind-set to work AND open on any trace of rabbit scent she came across.Great attributes if you plan on running your beagles where it's often below zero or are the type of guy who subjects his hounds to running in "90 degree temps. and dusty" conditions.
A hound that can do these things is a special hound indeed but, for me personally when
I lived in the north country and it was below zero I stayed by the wood stove and here in Tn. when it's hitting 90+ I'm not heading for the woods,I'm heading for the lake !
This hound I had I have no doubt would have excelled in those"worst" conditions of the north as her sire Ray did and as I witnessed was eventually able to work a rabbit up to a jump here in Tn. when it was hot and very dry .
The negatives were that she would very often be opening and trying to work lines that she couldn't always jump.Often she would work these lines for 20-30 minutes while a pack of pretty decent hounds would check her and then go back to looking for a rabbit.It got to the point where her kennel mates often would not even go to check her as they lost confidence in her.She was fairly obstinate in that you couldn't get her to quit and move on with you and the other hounds as long as she was working scent even though she wasn't able to do much with it.And I really hate a hound that is opening regularly BUT not moving out with it !
Would she get these rabbits up? Sometimes but not always.Personally I don't have a need OR a desire to have a hound that operates like this here in Tn.
I think ohlinger said it all and I quote him " but for central Ohio { Tn. } on most days all her barking would be a bit much and not much in the way of seen rabbits with out other dogs even honoring on what she was opening on......I guess you maybe have to consider your demographic area and the conditions you run in the most to decide what suits you perhaps as well.....
Keep in mind that many of those "worst" condition hounds probably wouldn't be what many beaglers want for those just "regular" hunting/running days.
As always JMHO.

[ohlinger]

I agree sir...Thanks

[ohlinger]

I just want to say I LOVE going North and running hare the chases you get are what a cottontail hunter dreams about at night lol, but with that I prefer to go with fair weather lol comfortable enjoyable weather. My hats off to the fellas that hunt there hounds in those conditions I would like to see how mine do in those conditions with deep snow and some more challenging conditions. Central ohio is not always sunshine and rainbows we do have crappy cold weather with Ice covered ground, and I do hunt those days "sometimes" lol but unless you get a long stretch of that stuff cottontails don't cooperate for long in it they like to be warm and cozy as much as I do.. just like any other hunting you have to look at what the weather Is doing for cottontails. hare seem to be a more hardy obviously and accustomed to that type of stuff they survive where cottontails don't lol. it's nice to be able to talk with guys with so much different experience....I've been from Southern Alabama running swampers to the u.p Michigan to hunt hare it's always fun to travel and have a good trip with your dogs. I think Swampers are a lot of fun b/c they don't run as crazy far as hare but still a lot bigger than most cottontails. hare makes me paranoid it's so much like a deer chase on a good day lol. still a blast once I finally see the hare and know it's on!!

[Shady Grove Beagles]

When folks talk about tough running conditions it seems we are always comparing snow/cold/ice with hot/dusty/dry conditions and what it takes in a hound to be successful in these scenarios.
I want to throw in another and see what folks think.
How about running the swamp rabbits around a lot of swimming water?
When I first started running the swamp rabbits it took some doing for my beagles to figure out what was happening to the track when the rabbit would sail off the bank in to the canal,float/swim a 100 feet,come out on the opposite bank and be gone.
I've run plenty of swampers in sections where the water is only a couple of inches deep or very little water at all and the beagles have no problems.But I'm now talking about those places with big swamps,slews canals,etc. where the beagles have to swim to stay with the rabbit.
I think it takes a combination of nose to discern the rabbits scent how ever he's leaving it behind on the water and a good case of brains to figure out where that rabbit could have disappeared to.
I would think that a beagle that reaches out on the check would be better served as to one that anchors close as sometimes there is NO line close as it disappeared when the rabbit hit the water and doesn't reappear on land for quite a distance.Any thoughts?

[Newt]

I don't think we will ever understand scent. Last year when I was running during a real rainy period in a low lying area, I saw something that I wouldn't have believed if I hadn't seen it. The dogs were running the rabbit that came by me and i watched it cross a puddle about six inches deep, about twenty ft in diameter. The dogs came along and when they reached the puddle they checked and were looking for the line. One bitch put her nose to the water and slowly walked it across the puddle, turning in the middle of the puddle where the rabbit had turned. The most amazing thing was the other members of the pack were splashing around ahead of her muddling up the water. How one dog had the nose/brains to follow that line accurately is a head scratcher.

[SMITTY1233]

Watched a cotton tail rabbit jump in a creek after being absolutely pushed to the limits by Smith Bros Lil Gunner Boy, HOF Nats Tom Boy and Jr's Chilli Dog. The rabbit swam 100 yds down a creek that is waist to shoulder deep to me. Jr's Chilli dog came down the creek bank dove into the creek swam the full 100 yds tonguing every breath and out the other side exactly where the rabbit did. We had three pretty seasoned handlers standing there watching the entire event on fold with jaws on the ground. I have never seen anything like it since and probably never well again. Unreal.

[ohlinger]

that would've been cool to see..i remember my first swamper chase my dogs packed right in we watched the swamper hit a puddle of water about 60yds wide and swim it and go off across the woods. my 2 of my hounds and 3 others were the first to the edge of the swamp both mine hit the edge of the water and went opposite ways searching the bank immediately the other seasoned swamper hounds dove straight in and barked every breath mine picked up there heads saw the other hounds swimming and opening and dove right in it was that moment like yeah this is what swampers is all about!!