linebred gay blood

[snellingsbeagles]

How do linebred gay dogs run I have a couple with baker in them and they are great but how do linebred baker dogs run compared to homer, tadpole, jd, and bigwheel

[Newt]

Did you see Gay Baker or any of Frank Reese's dogs run? If not, how do you know your dogs style/ability came from Baker? IMO, you would be more likely to get what you want by looking at dogs that are close up in your dog's pedigree.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

In the early 90's when I was in the process of getting out of coon dogs and back to the beagles I was running dogs with Bob Baker [former owner of Better Beagling magazine] at the Northfield Beagle Club in Vermont.
I was picking his brain as to lines of beagles and their characteristics.The subject of Frank Reese's Gay dogs came up.
Bob said that Frank had come up to Vermont one year[maybe for the Futurity?] with a bunch of his hounds and spent a week running hare with Bob and several other beaglers.
Bob said his impression of the Gay dogs was that they were a medium to a tad above medium speed hound and good rabbit dogs.The one thing about them that he didn't like was that they were too mouthy for his liking.He said "they never shut-up".

[Newt]

Reese bred to a litter mate of Dingus McRae, if I remember correctly, and got Gay Blase. He bred to Little Ireland's Binkey and got Gay Tide and Gay Time. IMO, both Tide and Time were mouthy. He bred Baker to Gay Cindy, (Cindy was by Brace FC Wilson's Timmy II) and got Gay Flag, Gay Fashion, and FC Glynns Gay Demon. I think that cross gave Gay hounds a reputation of being hard to break off deer. I was over breeding to Gay Baker when Flag, Fashion, and a litter mate sister were about a year old. Frank was raving about Fashion and her litter mate sister. His words, " I don't know of a stud dog good enough to use on those two bitches". The next time I visited both bitches were gone.
He bred Gay Cindy, if I remember correctly, to FC Bedlam Basil and got Gay Jet. He also bred Baker to Split Rail Betty(Brace Breeding) and got Gay Rocky and Dream Girl. Gay Rocky was used heavily to produce the Boldstroke beagles.
He also bred Baker to a hare bred bitch and produced a LPH Field Champion B&Ks Rock. Depending on which trail a breeder took, you could get about anything you desired, if you knew the hounds in the pedigree.
If there is a common line in those matings, I don't see it.

[Aubrey Holcombe]

I knew Mr. Frank Reese personal, he lived in N.C and I live in N.E.Ga. we about an hours drive away from his place. I tried to run some Gay's and they were fair Gun Dogs, until the deer here in Ga. were stock heavy and they were very bad on white tails and fox was ran by Franks up there in the hills in N.C. he once said if they don't run fox, I wouldn't have one !!

Back then there was No Shock collars, so i had to change my blood line, if I was to Gun Hunt he in Ga.

D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Over the past 24 years since getting out of the tree dogs and back in to rabbit dogs I've always wondered what happened to the Gay line fanciers??
It's super common for many of us beaglers to want to try and keep a well known line of hounds from "back-in-the-day" going.Some do it because they had the first hand opportunity to see a particular stud or dogs from a particular kennel run and were impressed,others because that's what Papaw or Uncle Charlie always had,some because they read a book about a particular kennel that struck their fancy,others jump on the band wagon of a kennel with consistent trial winners and still others want a "brand name" to sell their pups.
Look how often we still see ads/peds. using the old time kennel names ie; Skull Fork,Yellow Creek,Weir Creek,Patch,Black Creek,Fish Creek,Pierson Creek,Nomad's Buckshot Mr. Bill,Dingus MacRae,D.F.J.,Mt.Zion Pete,Lar-May,Warfield Red and Champlain Bucky. Most of these hounds,kennels and the men associated with them have been gone for anywhere from 30-50 years ago.
Maybe it's because I don't follow/keep that style of beagle but I never see the Gay dogs mentioned as I do most of these other kennels and hounds from the past???
As far as the Gay dogs liking a fox.............. I was told that Frank Reese was a BIG TIME fox hunter before he got in to the beagles.Maybe he just couldn't resist the temptation of a good fox race??

[Newt]

The Gay name is still being promoted by a few kennels. There was a guy down in Georgia a few years ago selling "Gay" beagles but I think he got into trouble. The DNA of the dogs that he was selling didn't always match the dogs that the customer received. There are others that are breeding pedigrees to keep the name, don't know if they would have passed the Reese test.

After I bred dogs for a few decades I began to wonder why anyone, with experience, is fascinated with the old time greats/bloodlines. You don't have access to the hounds that produced Gray's Linesman or DFJ Ruff Wong. To me its a lot quicker to start a good line of dogs by taking advantage of the top producing hounds of the day rather than try to replicate Gay Baker. Many of those "greats" were a result a certain format or an owner who had the means and talents to promote a dog. IMO, chasing pedigrees of dogs that have been dead for twenty years, that you have never seen, is a long time-consuming route probably to a dead end.
I remember Reese telling me that when he owned Gay Dash, Dash was a slow mouthy dog and that his only real useful trait was a "fault". F. Reese would take his pack to the mountains in the evening and turn loose. After running for a few hours, when he grew tired and sleepy, he would take a nap. When he awoke in the morning and was ready to head home, he could always locate his pack, if they were not running, because Dash would be dog tracking. He sold Dash to a dog jockey who advertised him, using the Gay name off Bakers reputation to increase his stud fee. Today Dash is in the pedigree of some notable hounds of the past . Don't know it he was producer of better dogs than himself or if the bitch line over rode his faults.

[Beagle Huntsman]

I met Frank Reese and knew his hounds very well. The one common thing to all his crosses was his female line, with the exception of Rocky, who was from a female line of 60s brace breeding. The Gay hounds all ran in a similar manner. They did tend to have a little extra mouth (not all of them) and they were typically trashy until broken well, but we didn't have the deer in those days that we do now. They were very game (as Frank advertised) and were excellent at finding rabbits. They had good speed, but were generally not wild running hounds like many today.

I used a son of Gay Baker in my breeding program and was very pleased with what I got. The female from that cross was an outstanding hound at finding rabbits on our gunning trips. She's about 10 generations back now.

I would have used the Gay hounds more, but I preferred Little Ireland as a whole, and crossed them on some of the Ohio/KY bloodlines instead of the Gay. I also bred once to Gay Time, but did not care for the litter. Time was an outstanding jump and running hound, except that he would pop off on his checks, as someone said. I always thought Little Ireland and Gay would have crossed well, but I think there was some jealousy between Frank and Tom that prevented it. Frank did breed that one time to Little Ireland's Binkey to produce Time. Both men understood the value of good conformation and bred for it.

Frank did something that few have done in that he created a female line that stretched for about a dozen generations. I give him great credit for that, since the average beagler has no line at all, and even "great" breeders seldom get more than 3 or 4 generations. Frank used to write a lot about foxhounds in "The Chase" back in the 40s, and I think his foxhound background was a great influence on his beagling decisions. The beagle world today is better because he chose to breed the little hounds instead of the bigger type. Truly a great breeder from the past.

[Aubrey Holcombe]

Mr. Frank Reese was a mighty nice Houndsman,, and I have the Up Most Respect for the Gentleman that he was, not many folks will have known that he was a Christian Man Sunday School Teacher!

He was like many of us Houndsman,, he had his own set of Requirements for his Breeding, and in his day there was way to many that was breed way to slow, for Gun Hunting ! I been lucky. Good Lord has seen fit for me to be around for a few years ! Mr. Frank and Mr.Tom was the Only Two Houndsmen that was seeing thew writing, on the wall, about where the
Beagles was headed and they Did Not Follow. If it had not been for these two, old Gentlemen. I don't think the Gun Hunters would have been so lucky this day and time.

Keep Looking Up!
D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>Rabbit Town, USA~~>

[Newt]

He was like many of us Houndsman,, he had his own set of Requirements for his Breeding, and in his day there was way to many that was breed way to slow, for Gun Hunting ! I been lucky. Good Lord has seen fit for me to be around for a few years ! Mr. Frank and Mr.Tom was the Only Two Houndsmen that was seeing thew writing, on the wall, about where the
Beagles was headed and they Did Not Follow. If it had not been for these two, old Gentlemen. I don't think the Gun Hunters would have been so lucky this day and time.

Keep Looking Up!
D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>Rabbit Town, USA~~>

Right! When I got into beagles, "Hounds and Hunting" was about the only link we had to beagles. It was covered with "Peanut Rollers" from cover to cover. There was a small section that covered LPH Trial results. Tom Dornin advertised Little Ireland"s Binkey. Frank Reese took a chance and advertised "Gay Baker". No title, just a good gundog. I bought a couple pups and a started hound from Tom and bred a bitch to Baker. Both Tom and Frank had similar no BS attitudes. Too stubborn to work together. They about got into a altercation when Frank bred a bitch to Binkey. They also had the similar health handicaps. Both were important to the revitalization of beagles as gundogs. My present hounds have Gay hounds, Baker, Charley's Ranger. and Gay Deal in their pedigrees.

[S.R.Patch]

I had Gay Sam an all-round good med speed hound with a great nose for catching air scent. His only fault was, he would fight any hound at a catch or a kill so I sold him to Gene Greene. He was looking for a hound to hunt with his family on holiday and run around the farm. They had cut out a woods some yrs before and it had grown up full of rabbits so he said he'd get plenty of running solo. I hated that hound would fight cause he was a good one. I even ran him with bitches and it didn't matter, the rabbit was his.
I also had a walker hound called Deacon that was a good one but he would fight at the tree, so he was a solo hound. Greed and jealously ruins some good ones.

Tom acknowledged, if he had known about the LPH hounds at the time, he would have saved alot of time. So there were still useful rabbit hounds around, it was just the communication was not great of what was available. All the advertising was for the brace hounds.

[billy boy]

this seems to be an old post i have some pretty nice gay hounds. some of them do have extra mouth just like some of every bloodline. seems to me frank reese bred them dogs to run and most will run their heart out, but on the other hand mr. reese said no female ever ran with baker and very few males. as well as most seasoned beaglers a dog with alot of hunt and desire , on a bad running day is prone to run off game if not broken. in my experience most naturally born trash proof dogs are on the lazy side, jmho

[billy boy]

this seems to be an old post i have some pretty nice gay hounds. some of them do have extra mouth just like some of every bloodline. seems to me frank reese bred them dogs to run and most will run their heart out, but on the other hand mr. reese said no female ever ran with baker and very few males. as well as most seasoned beaglers a dog with alot of hunt and desire , on a bad running day is prone to run off game if not broken. in my experience most naturally born trash proof dogs are on the lazy side, jmho

[TnHoss]

S.R. Patch,medium speed, you would have thought he would have had a little more foot coming out of Thomas Gilbert's stock. Sam had Gay Deal,Chase and Dingus Macrae in the 3 rd generation if I remember correctly.

[S.R.Patch]

This was past 25 yr ago. I ran him with Blackfoot Pop Fannie, Bredemeir's WW Gypsy Rose Lee & Webb's Sassy bitch. Fannie was my jumpdawg, Gypsy would drive and Sam & Sassy would run right through most checks, what a great little pack of hounds they were.
Sassy couldn't run with Joe's hounds but she could run with mine so I called them medium speed. Running with Cody's Sharpe Mikie was a real challenge but alot of fun, what a great hound he was. I watched Joe & Billy's hounds eat alot of rabbits and mine didn't do that often(I like to eat rabbit too!). I guess I could call them med-fast but I'd always rather surprise to the upside and not disappoint...lol