The American Beagler Forum

in regards to nose i'm curious if anyone has had the same experience as me ....I run predominantly line bred paycheck and shoreacres hounds. I run cottontail in central ohio...my dogs are jump 1st bark 2nd type hounds on cottontail (which for reasons I will spare you for now is all I believe you need for cottontail) When I go up north to run hare my dogs will cold track a hare...I've had them on one occasion cold track for up to almost a half hour before getting the track hot like it was finally jumped...anyone else ever noticed this ?

my thoughts...cottontail & hare are 2 different animals..the nature of the chase between the two is much different....being a cottontail hunter when my dogs get on hare lol I start questioning if its a hare or a deer...until I acutally see the hare i'm uneasy the entire time. I'd say hare leave a lot more scent especially if they are active at night and that is why my dogs cold track them...from my experience with my hounds i'd say if you comparing hare nose power to cottontail nose power with out ever having ran both with the same hounds your comparing two different things. Nose is a funny thing to gauge in the first place as it takes a lot of time in the woods with an individual hound and a lot of experience with other hounds to actually gauge it...just b/c a dog is barking when others aren't doesn't mean it's got a better nose lol and you can't smell what the dogs smell either...it's a tricky thing in my opinon...a dogs brain controls the mouth not the nose I question if people don't confuse brains & nose sometimes...

ohlinger wrote:in regards to nose i'm curious if anyone has had the same experience as me ....I run predominantly line bred paycheck and shoreacres hounds. I run cottontail in central ohio...my dogs are jump 1st bark 2nd type hounds on cottontail (which for reasons I will spare you for now is all I believe you need for cottontail) When I go up north to run hare my dogs will cold track a hare...I've had them on one occasion cold track for up to almost a half hour before getting the track hot like it was finally jumped...anyone else ever noticed this ?

my thoughts...cottontail & hare are 2 different animals..the nature of the chase between the two is much different....being a cottontail hunter when my dogs get on hare lol I start questioning if its a hare or a deer...until I acutally see the hare i'm uneasy the entire time. I'd say hare leave a lot more scent especially if they are active at night and that is why my dogs cold track them...from my experience with my hounds i'd say if you comparing hare nose power to cottontail nose power with out ever having ran both with the same hounds your comparing two different things. Nose is a funny thing to gauge in the first place as it takes a lot of time in the woods with an individual hound and a lot of experience with other hounds to actually gauge it...just b/c a dog is barking when others aren't doesn't mean it's got a better nose lol and you can't smell what the dogs smell either...it's a tricky thing in my opinon...a dogs brain controls the mouth not the nose I question if people don't confuse brains & nose sometimes...

that's true and you can see that better if a place has only a few hares.a lot of night tracks and tricks before the final cover.

Hare don't sit nearly as tight as cottontail and the under cover is generally much thicker for cottontail. My guess is you spook the hare when you unload dogs. By the time the dogs get to the hare its an older track (15-30 min). It smells good enough for the dogs to move but not the hot jumps you are accustomed to. For this reason wide reaching search dogs jump more hare when they cut across these fairly fresh tracks and normally produce the hare.

I owned a female I could drive down the road early morning after it snowed the night before. If I could see a track in the snow I could drop her and 9/10 times she would jump the hare. You simply would never do that on a cottontail. Hare don't hole, don't climb in thick brush piles for the most part.

Dave, I agree but there is a place on the Island that we call the Abyss. For some reason when the Hare are tired of running, (usually after 4-5 hours) they head there and they dissappear. It's not a big area maybe the size of a football field and that is a small area for a hare but the hare seem to vanish and we cannot find them again no matter how hard we search. At first we thought it was because the dogs were tired but it has happened several times over the 16 years or so that I have ran there. Did they hole? Who knows. Did they climb a tree? Again know one knows. What we do know is that they disappear and we have no idea where they go. We haven't ran thre in a few years just because of this reason. Sorry to ramble but I do agree, you don't get the jumps like one does with cottontails as you do with Hare.

Unless your there in Oct. at the first of the season's young harvest.
Running the young hare was like jumping and running cottontail. They crisscross each other's tracks and sometimes run three a line only to split and divide the hounds much like cottontails.
Imho, the best running is in Dec, after the herd has been thinned down and the mature and survivors of the young are left. You'll still get to smell gunpowder but the longer runs are more steady coming.

So you fellas are saying it takes more nose to run hare and less to run cottontail ?

There are people who frequent this board who run both on a regular basis. I would defer to them. Given an average day weather wise, an average scenting day and average terrain my sense is the cottontail has weaker scent. My guess is a patient, line running, tight check dog is more required on cottontail. A dog with a strong nose that has the afore mentioned qualities and good physical build ought to be able to run either well once accustomed to the conditions and environment.

I haven't ready where anyone said that ? but there is a lot of posts i'd prbly wanna swallow the business end of a shotgun by the time I ready them all lol

if u can run a hare after its been below zero every night for a week,,deep dry powder snow that squeaks when you walk on it--- dogs are swimming to move--- takes a certain kind of dog to do that , they are pretty rare in any bloodline im aware of

ive seen some that could do it but never saw alot in one place at one time, lol




next problem is icy crust ,no snow on it,, cold temps -- you can see a hare and not have a dog that can bark-- seen it many times,, warms up a few degrees and they can fly -- rains one day and twenty below the next ,,show me those big stinky hare-
bad scenting conditions can make those big stinky hare undetectable -at least to the worthless potlickers ive got with me -

snowshoehareguide wrote:if u can run a hare after its been below zero every night for a week,,deep dry powder snow that squeaks when you walk on it--- dogs are swimming to move--- takes a certain kind of dog to do that , they are pretty rare in any bloodline im aware of

ive seen some that could do it but never saw alot in one place at one time, lol




next problem is icy crust ,no snow on it,, cold temps -- you can see a hare and not have a dog that can bark-- seen it many times,, warms up a few degrees and they can fly -- rains one day and twenty below the next ,,show me those big stinky hare-
bad scenting conditions can make those big stinky hare undetectable -at least to the worthless potlickers ive got with me -

Only those who have experienced these kind of conditions can appreciate it. When you run with someone who has a dog that can run a hare in that environment while yours follow along mute as can be its not much fun. On the other hand, if yours is the dog getting it done it's quite gratifying. I've been in both scenarios!!

all the dogs have bad and good days
and sometimes any dog can run.
I want a dog to run hare and when the scenting condition
are great must fly with the head up top speed.
when the conditions are on average level must run 8-9 with losses
and some overrun and when the conditions are extremely bad I dont expect nothing!!!BUT I can understand no run but never excuse NO JUMP.NO JUMP MEANS CULL.and I don't mean JUMP in a PEN!!

mybeagles, hare don't hole? BUNK! I have SEEN hare hole at least 6 times. just saying. they do hole not often, but they do hole.

reddog, we all have an abyss. I know exactly what you mean. I think aliens take them.

Found our best spot on the island on a freak chase...we jumped a big running hare that never circled it ran out back and out again and never came back after about an hour of searching once we finally realized the dogs weren't coming back we got in the trucks finally picked up G.P.S on the dogs and had 8 dogs running in 3 different packs and hare running EVERYWHERE..unfortunately it was our last day hunting...Can't wait to return to that spot!! Anyone else think the Garmins have a hard time in Drummond ? I think it's b/c some of the pines are so thick...mine was losing reception on the dogs after about 300yds...which is not typical in my experience around home.

Running hare & running cottontail are very different. Dogs that can adjust & do well on both are hard to find. Someone mentioned Dan Johnson. He has had good luck in both. So has John Dewyse, Bob King, Cletus Shaw & several others. Some guys down here have had good luck in the hare trials also. Don Hoog won the Nationals with a big female & Showtime won the big male class one year. These guys run hounds with some Pacesetter blood & also Heli-Prop/ Jack of all Trades... One of the best big females I ever judged on cottontail was also running in hare trials. She was IFC Stonyhills Tamarack; by Pacesetter & FC Black Point Bessie.