PRODUCER OR JUST A AVERAGE STUD!

[RollingTrack]

HOW MANY NICE YOUNG DOGS OR DO YOU FEEL HE MUST PRODUCE MANY FCGD'S,TO BE A PRODUCER ? JUST LIKE TO HERE FOLKS THOUGHTS ...THANKS!

[Shady Grove Beagles]

I'm well aware that the Field Trialing circuit hounds and owners are the major generators and receivers of the lion's share of publicity in regards to beagling.
This is true no matter what association or format you compete in.I'm thankful that the trials bring to our attention those outstanding hounds that we would otherwise probably never know about.
As has been mentioned on another thread on this board this evening,most of all the big name and successful trialers are breeding a hound to fit a specific format.
Many on these boards seem to think the sun rises and sets on field trials.Truth is that if you consider ALL the people around this country that keep beagles for the purpose of running and/or killing rabbits you would find that those that trial are a VERY,VERY small percentage.
Basing one's decision on a stud's success in regards to how many field champions he's produced leaves out too many variables ie did his pups end up in the hands of trialers? were they competed in a format that was best to showcase their particular abilities? were they owned by a knowledgeable houndsman who knew what he had? did they get the right start or were they left sitting in the pen for months at a time? were they given a fair shot at developing or were they sold or traded around like so many on this board?
I think it's of the utmost importance to research a studs pups and see for yourself what he's throwing rather than just consider how many field champions he's produced.
I've been following hounds after one type of game or another for 50 years now.
I've owned some very nice dogs that had a pedigree loaded with field champions so I'm not knocking their contributions.
I also have met over the years and know now houndsmen who have never attended a trial and I doubt ever will that have top hounds in their kennels and have been producing top gun dogs for many years.
I consider a stud a reproducer if he's consistantly putting pups on the ground that folks are pleased to own.

[warddog]

I'm well aware that the Field Trialing circuit hounds and owners are the major generators and receivers of the lion's share of publicity in regards to beagling.
This is true no matter what association or format you compete in.I'm thankful that the trials bring to our attention those outstanding hounds that we would otherwise probably never know about.
As has been mentioned on another thread on this board this evening,most of all the big name and successful trialers are breeding a hound to fit a specific format.
Many on these boards seem to think the sun rises and sets on field trials.Truth is that if you consider ALL the people around this country that keep beagles for the purpose of running and/or killing rabbits you would find that those that trial are a VERY,VERY small percentage.
Basing one's decision on a stud's success in regards to how many field champions he's produced leaves out too many variables ie did his pups end up in the hands of trialers? were they competed in a format that was best to showcase their particular abilities? were they owned by a knowledgeable houndsman who knew what he had? did they get the right start or were they left sitting in the pen for months at a time? were they given a fair shot at developing or were they sold or traded around like so many on this board?
I think it's of the utmost importance to research a studs pups and see for yourself what he's throwing rather than just consider how many field champions he's produced.
I've been following hounds after one type of game or another for 50 years now.
I've owned some very nice dogs that had a pedigree loaded with field champions so I'm not knocking their contributions.
I also have met over the years and know now houndsmen who have never attended a trial and I doubt ever will that have top hounds in their kennels and have been producing top gun dogs for many years.
I consider a stud a reproducer if he's consistantly putting pups on the ground that folks are pleased to own.

Well said and I agree 100%.

[kwolf]

I too have been running hounds for over 50 years just like Dana , years ago following coon hounds thru the woods at night and for the last 35 years running and hunting beagles. I'm like Dana I have seen many good hounds that were never hunted in competition that could flat get the job done in the woods and field no title on those hounds and yes they too could produce some great hounds. Now with that being said I have also seen field champions and night champions that leave me wondering how they ever got the TITLE . If given the chance go see for yourself the stud hunt and run and check out some of his offspring , if he can fit that bill breed to him . It also is good to have a great bitch to breed good producing litters usually have both parents that are outstanding .

[Hare Chaser]

I too agree with what Dana and Kwolf state and the originator of the post specifically refers to the pre potent stud. Yet just as important is the prepotent bitch. For some reason many feel they can carry just an average bitch to a respected producing stud and they're guaranteed an above average or top litter of pups. I'm no breeder and have raised very few litters in the 39 years I've owned hunting hounds, coon hounds and beagles. From what I read and have observed regarding the results of the most successful breeders, is that most have much hands on knowledge of several generations of the dogs behind the mating pair. Both the positive and negative. It seems to me that the top dogs rise up most often from a mated pair where there is a history of both parents having above average performance coupled with an above average ability to regenerate their genetic inheritance.

[RollingTrack]

Well said , appreciate the opinions.. And I agree with all the points you folks have pointed out!

[Aubrey Holcombe]

Yes Sir, Too many folks think if their Females don't hunt hard and like some Class under the Gun,, they can just breed her to the Gr.Fld Ch. that just won, the Biggest Trial in the USA, and them pups will be Jump dogs and perfect for their Gun Dog Pack?

Since this post seems to have the Experience Old Folks, I am a few years older that most, I don't get around to well on my feet any more,, but I have two Kubota diesel 4x4 parked right out side my back door and I fool with my hounds, ever day three times a day 365 day a year.. I have breed and raised about 6 litter so far this year, have two more very Nice Red females breed, right now to heavy breed Gr.Fld.Ch. HOF Cotton Country Scout blood line.

Keep Looking Up!
D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>

[S.R.Patch]

Ole Bunny is nothing special but she sure can make some good puppies. I only bred her cause I'd been getting mostly dog pups. You never know without a test breeding to see how a hound may produce. Lucy her mama was a really good little hound and so was Horn. Lucy had my Casey as her daddy and Horn had Spirit, Bud's his best bitch as his mama. The whole pedigree was related and all at or above my standard. I think that is the key, fewer hounds all related meeting your standard. Maybe it's stacking the genes, maybe it's the likeness of all the hounds involved. but it's easier to tell what went right or wrong after the fact than before...lol
jmho

Outcrossing can be like using baking soda instead of baking powder in you cookies, they still look like a cookie but they taste bad...lol

[Newt]

They are all "just average studs" if you don't know what you like and you don't know the type dogs that Field Champion represents.

I'll use Mybeagles post as a good example.

"Hare don't sit nearly as tight as cottontail and the under cover is generally much thicker for cottontail. My guess is you spook the hare when you unload dogs. By the time the dogs get to the hare its an older track (15-30 min). It smells good enough for the dogs to move but not the hot jumps you are accustomed to. For this reason wide reaching search dogs jump more hare when they cut across these fairly fresh tracks and normally produce the hare."

If you don't know that, and you are hunting cottontails in the briar patches of Georgia, a FC Stud that earned his title on LPH may not be the dog. you are hoping to get.