How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

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redtick79
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:24 pm

How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by redtick79 »

I have always wondered how often does a young dog need a rabbit, to enhance the desire and hunt, in a dog under 2 years old
I have finished dogs that have never had a rabbit shot for them, and some dogs don't seem to turn on until they have a season of hunting on them. What do you guys think?

Hare Chaser
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by Hare Chaser »

In general, shooting game to any hound has minimal effect on the hounds performance. Does it fire them up and get them excited at the time? Absolutely yes. Will it change the way they do what they do in terms of style and ability? Absolutely not! As owner/handlers of our hounds we cannot "teach" our hounds how to run a track, to stay tight on a loss, the difference between old line and new, to hunt harder, longer, etc. We can't instill " no quit desire", when to pick up their heads and run on high scent or when to drop their heads and carefully work the ground for the loss in the midst of the company of other dogs. 90% or more of the "how" a hound pursues its game happened the moment the males sperm penetrated the females egg. The owner/handler of a hound can teach them not to run undesired game, come when called, heel when walking, sit, stay, load and a number of commands. Rewards for handling commands absolutely enhance and encourage consistency in that department. Trailing/pursuing game is determined by genetic predisposition, not taught, therefore, rewards play far less of a roll than most of us really want to believe. That's my humble or perhaps not so humble, opinion based on my experiences of 39 consecutive years of owning hunting hounds.

redtick79
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by redtick79 »

That is what I thought, my best dogs never had more than a rabbit or two shot for them their whole lives.

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S.R.Patch
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by S.R.Patch »

Imho, So much of what a hound is, is developed in those first couple of yrs. How incomplete a hound may be without ever experiencing the "finish", one can never know.
I've seen hounds that want and need it and others that seem to care little.
What if you were playing football but there were no goal post at either end... :biggrin:

Newt
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by Newt »

It doesn't affect many of them if any. I shot a couple of cottontails this week. My best two bitches were not interested in the dead rabbits at all.
The first one I shot through some grass as it was running. I walked over and couldn't find it. I called my bitch, Pearl, and put her on the line. She and the others ran about fifty ft and checked, changed direction a couple of times, then she made a dive in to the grass and caught the rabbit. When they shut up I ran over and the pup had the rabbit. I got it and hung it on a bush. The pup was excited but the rest were not interested. After catching and killing it they still had no interest in the dead rabbit. I killed another one and still no interest.
Pearl is about as dedicated as a hunting dog can be but its all instilled in her by her breeding. She is a briar and brush pile buster and can wind a rabbit, but no interest in a dead one.

bluemouse
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by bluemouse »

Praising young dogs and showing them the end results lets them know your are pleased tells them good job. Newt I agree with your comments cause I got one that just gets mad when you shoot her rabbit. She shows no interest in a dead rabbit and will cut her eyes at you and go find another one.

Aubrey Holcombe
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by Aubrey Holcombe »

I am an Ol Ga. Red Neck want my gun dog pups to be shot over and let them come in to where the rabbit was shot! I get the rabbit up and make sure the pups get to see it and some of my pups will Jump waist high, and they love to smell the blood ! I think it effects some hounds lots differently than others. I want to make a big to do out of their first ever shot rabbit and in my 77 years, I still ask my Grandson to show them the rabbit and we have a special Call that we all use to let the other folks and the hounds know that the rabbit has been shoot!!

Keep Looking Up!
D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
ARHA Hall Of Fame, own "The Daddy Rabbit Kennels", Royston, Georgia

513Moogie
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by 513Moogie »

I'm with Aubrey and I can add that letting a young dog run down a wounded rabbit and opening it up and giving him/her its first taste of blood is about as good as it gets. Genetics are the most important when it comes to skill level but the thrill of the kill and being in the moment never gets old.
Had a pup from questionable genetics from an old boy up on the Knob once and I had her out enough that she should have started but 14 months went by and she was still a no go. On a hunt with another seasoned dog I got hold of a wounded rabbit and threw it out in a open field and let her have at it. As luck would have it the rabbit finally made it to a tree and got under the roots and Cleo tried do chew the tree down. The next rabbit that got up she finally opened up with the most worst out of tune howl you ever heard but in time she turned out to be a good rabbit dog. Good question you asked.

HBmudbug
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by HBmudbug »

international field champ awful bawlin Viagra was never shot over.

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by Shady Grove Beagles »

Like Hare Chaser,I don't believe that it has a great effect as I give much more credence to how they are bred as genetics and opportunity play a much larger part then how many dead rabbits a dog sniffs.
That being said,I do like to shoot some rabbits in front of my young dogs their first gun season.And by "some" that could mean half a dozen.I don't believe it makes them a "better" rabbit dog but I do want them exposed to gun fire and I do feel it dials them in to rabbits first and foremost and I have few problems with off-game.
Most of the best beagles I've had could care less about a dead rabbit and almost give me the impression that I spoiled their fun by killing the rabbit!
Home of a true hunting beagle that run to catch

steve w
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Location: sw mi

Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by steve w »

I don't shoot much any,more but believe killing rabbits in front of the dogs can be useful. Like any training method you may need it for some and not others. When I did shoot a lot of rabbits the dogs I ran at the time seemed to find rabbits better, as they had to cause they were getting shot and if they wanted to run they had to find a new one. The dogs I run now seem to be better at keeping a rabbit going, hard checks and double backs are common as the longer the race the more tricks the rabbits can use. I've often thought about the lack of shooting I do now and wonder what the dogs would get out of a few dead rabbits,maybe nothing, maybe move em' up a notch. Might have to try and see as I have pups in their first season that started the first time they got in the woods and are doing good.

Hare Chaser
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by Hare Chaser »

HBmudbug wrote:international field champ awful bawlin Viagra was never shot over.
:check:

Nothing wrong with giving a hound some game and yes, I too believe many dogs get very excited about it.

I remember many years ago when I had coon hounds an event occurring that cemented the truth of genetic predisposition into my mind. I had a young 2 year old male Bluetick I called Joe. His sire was Robinson's Blue Gunner and dam was my Twin River Blue Bugle. Joe was a born tree dog as we're both his parents. His 1st night in the woods he treed with his mother as if he was a seasoned hound yet he had never seen or smelled a live coon.

I was hunting Joe solo one night in late October. Hides were prime and it was about 22° with a slight breeze. I was in a stand of mature oaks. Joe was a medium range hound at best but would go as deep as he had to when winding a coon. I saw him lift his nose in the air and head up the hill. He'd been gone about 15 mins. and I heard him fall treed. Leaves were off the majority of the trees and as I approached the tree I shut off my light and looked in the approximate area Joe was treed. High in the top of a Red maple was a big hump that didn't belong there. I arrived at the tree and confirmed Joe had a good sized coon up. It had been several weeks since Joe had been given a coon so I decided to shoot it out to him. No leaves, a scoped Ruger 10-22 and pretty clear shot sent a hollow point into the coons head on the first shot. Joe was loose and was an on the tree, tree dog. That coon literally dropped at his feet. Joe dropped down on all fours, mouthed the coon a couple times and immediately got back up on the tree and started clicking them off at about 120 barks per minute. He never got back down off that tree to touch the coon again.

He was bred to be a tree dog from generations of solid tree dogs preceding him. He was however a fairly poor track dog even though his parents were very good track dogs as well as tree dogs. No amount of game given to Joe could change any of that. I had him for another year and couldn't live with his inability to handle anything more than a red hot track. He was however the best tree dog I ever owned. He was very accurate and once he treed he was there until you went and got him period.

There are many things we as our hounds human partners can do many things that help shape them into enjoyable hunting and/or competition hounds. Genes and chromosomes cannot be readjusted after conception and thankfully so! Much of the anticipation of raising and training hounds would be removed were it otherwise! Enjoy the special ones when they come along cause there can be long gaps in between them!

rabbitearl
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by rabbitearl »

90 percent of the guys that runs there dogs in my pen don t hunt. Just love to hear the dogs run and they can really run one with ease. But you can take these same dogs rabbit hunting and if you are not in lots of rabbit, you going to have a bad day. Most of these kind of dogs just don t know what to do when a rabbit is kill in front of them but wait for you to jump another one. There nothing like a pack of dogs looking another rabbit when one is just kill in front of them.

How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs. Are you a rabbit hunter or pleaser hunter. There s a differ in each one and the dogs too. If two differ one come to my house and want to go rabbit hunting and I know one can really run the crap out of a rabbit but never has kill a rabbit in front of them and the other person has kill over a 100 this year in front of his dogs. I want to go rabbit hunting and shoot some rabbits. I am going with the man that kills rabbits. I love to hear a good pack of dogs run a rabbit. Hear it everyday. To me theres something left out when you don t hear that gun.

I love what everybody says. I am sure some dogs don t care if one is kill in front of them or not. But and a big but.

The last pack I had. If you jump a rabbit just shoot in the air and they would come running. Just point were you saw the rabbit. then it was on. That's call gun dogs. That's one of the biggest reason I say. There something more than just running one.

Newt
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by Newt »

rabbitearl wrote:Most of these kind of dogs just don t know what to do when a rabbit is kill in front of them but wait for you to jump another one. There nothing like a pack of dogs looking another rabbit when one is just kill in front of them.

.
You check the pedigrees of those dogs and they come from several generations of dogs that were bred for line ability only. Hunt and jumping serves little to no purpose in AKC competition.

There is a special place for dogs that won't hunt.

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: How important is shooting rabbits for young dogs?

Post by Shady Grove Beagles »

Hey Hare Chaser
I know this is a beagle forum but I think any houndsmen can relate to a hound's work.
Thanks for stirring an old memory.Joe sure could blow the top out of a tree!
Home of a true hunting beagle that run to catch

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