gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

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rabbitearl
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by rabbitearl »

What the different in gun dog and meat dog?

Rabbithoundjb
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by Rabbithoundjb »

Gun dogs I would say are dogs hunted under the gun for a specific game. Meat dogs are we have always called double barrel dogs, shoot whatever he gets after. Trial dogs are foreign to me since I don't trial.

rabbitearl
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by rabbitearl »

Thanks I did not know.

Hurricane Creek
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by Hurricane Creek »

Hare Chaser wrote:Heck all I want is a hound that can jump and circle a hare/rabbit like he or she was tied to it with a foot long rope any day I choose to go to the woods! And.............
---- then fetch it back to me when it's crippled or killed. :)

warddog
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by warddog »

Your last post Shady grove rings home for me as well. When I was taught rabbit dogs and hunting we couldn't afford more than one dog but my grand dad had one, my uncles each had one. When ever we went we had to have a dog that could get a rabbit started and bring it back to the gun or we wasted money on fuel to go to the field. Many times it would be just dad and I or maybe my grandfather the next time or then an uncle or cousin and the dogs we took had to do their own thing as well as pack up with what was with us. Those were "MEAT" dogs as they produced rabbit meat for the table alone or with another dog or two. IMHO a "MEAT" dog will produce with or without help and do so consistently. That doesn't mean they are Classy, Flashy, run too much rabbit or not enough rabbit or any of those other beagle descriptions I've never understood but they just do what it takes to put meat on the table doing whatever it takes to do so. They may only get one or two but they get er done!

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by Shady Grove Beagles »

Thanks warddog--That's what I was trying to say.Everyone is always trying to break the beagles down into what their idea of the best hound should look like.
All I was saying is that we get rabbits with the hounds we run.
Home of a true hunting beagle that run to catch

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BB Beagles
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by BB Beagles »

I'm going with simple terms this time. I gun hunt my dogs, they bring a rabbit back to the gun. I also run my same dogs in different Trial formats. Do they always win, NO, do they always lose, NO, are they competitive enough to compete with others, YES.

What style of hound is this... My style!
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Hubbard84
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by Hubbard84 »

Adirondackjoe and hare chaser haha best comments. We can see the dogs on the stud pages are all succcessful on the trial circuit. They all have great qualities including "brains", nose, speed, line control, hard hunt, stamina, and check work. If these aren't the qualities that are desired for a "gundog", then I'm not sure what is...especially hunt and "brains". Some of the NMHA members and I'm sure many running the Midwest association would say they are judging for the abilities that would make the best hunting dog. This is from an inexperienced pleasure runner 96%, hunter 4%, and trailer 1%. I'll also say I think the majority of houndsmen think they have something better than they actually do, myself included. There has to be a measuring stick though (field trials) to evaluate abilities in a non-biased (hopefully) way to improve the breed. Happy hunting!

bear128
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by bear128 »

Less game will show you what kind of jump dogs you got . Are you saying that with alot of game these dogs are jumping rabbits and losing them then jumping another because they can't run the first ? If thats the case they need to find some better dogs to keep the first rabbit going , no dog will run every rabbit some don't have scent by no means do I have the best dogs in the world but if they aren't bringing that rabbit back around to me and keeping it going until the rabbit holes , gets shot or I call them off on a really consistent bases them I'm going to find some that will . They don't have to look flashy doing it just stay on him and I'm happy and on a hard check stay in there until they get it right .

likeemfast
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by likeemfast »

Hubbard84 wrote: We can see the dogs on the stud pages are all succcessful on the trial circuit. They all have great qualities including "brains", nose, speed, line control, hard hunt, stamina, and check work. If these aren't the qualities that are desired for a "gundog", then I'm not sure what is...especially hunt and "brains". Some of the NMHA members and I'm sure many running the Midwest association would say they are judging for the abilities that would make the best hunting dog. This is from an inexperienced pleasure runner 96%, hunter 4%, and trailer 1%.
96%+4%+1% is that supposed to equal 100% or are you saying something i dont understand, also hard hunt is being emphasized in trialing? Doubt that.
Hubbard84 wrote: I'll also say I think the majority of houndsmen think they have something better than they actually do, myself included. There has to be a measuring stick though (field trials) to evaluate abilities in a non-biased (hopefully) way to improve the breed. Happy hunting!
Although i will say i agree with you most believe they have something better than they actually do always remember it was trialing that was responsible for almost ruining the beagle breed altogether, IMO they did. We now have more registries for all different styles of dogs, meaning there is a class for all culls to compete in. A good one can compete in any class for the most part but you have to be particular when trialing a cull and compete in what registry he fits into.

A gundog/meatdog was all the same to us and still is, a rabbit dog, if they chased anything else usually you came home with a spare collar. JMO.
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Buckeye Bob
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by Buckeye Bob »

Right on Shady, you speak my language and when I grow up I want to be just like you. :D

Newt
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by Newt »

Hubbard84 wrote:Adirondackjoe and hare chaser haha best comments. We can see the dogs on the stud pages are all succcessful on the trial circuit. They all have great qualities including "brains", nose, speed, line control, hard hunt, stamina, and check work. If these aren't the qualities that are desired for a "gundog", then I'm not sure what is...especially hunt and "brains". Some of the NMHA members and I'm sure many running the Midwest association would say they are judging for the abilities that would make the best hunting dog. This is from an inexperienced pleasure runner 96%, hunter 4%, and trailer 1%. I'll also say I think the majority of houndsmen think they have something better than they actually do, myself included. There has to be a measuring stick though (field trials) to evaluate abilities in a non-biased (hopefully) way to improve the breed. Happy hunting!
1%Trialer?
Mr Hubbard, have you ever been to a trial when the hounds didn't jump a rabbit, didn't circle a rabbit, or a placing hound stopped and checked out the garbage cans each time there was a long check? If so did they award 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th place?

warddog
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by warddog »

Shady Grove Beagles wrote:Thanks warddog--That's what I was trying to say.Everyone is always trying to break the beagles down into what their idea of the best hound should look like.
All I was saying is that we get rabbits with the hounds we run.
BOOM, there it is Shady Grove. I have always stated on these beagle boards as it is all bout OPINION. One mans trash or cull is another mans treasure and one can NOT remove personal bias or OPINION from human nature. I'll bet that when we are out hunting we are constantly judging whatever dogs we are with whether we say anything or not. That is how we determine what we like and want. Yeah, they try to put all kinds of rules into trials but those are then interpreted by an individual whether it be the one measuring or the one judging and as we have seen in all these trial question threads there are many OPINIONS of what was and what should have been done. I have and hunt beagles because I love the sound of the chase and the only need to compete with MR. Rabbit. If they are doing what my OPINION of what a rabbit dog should be doing they are doing everything within their ability to bring that rabbit chase to an end game. If they are down with others then they should work alone until a rabbit is jumped and if it is not theirs they should hark into and work WITHIN the team but doing their own thing rather than competing with the others. If I'm hunting and there are four dogs that are in on circling a rabbit and all four come in my sight, nose to butthole (so to speak) running that tack and mine is last he is still a rabbit dog in my eyes because minus those other three being in front when I saw them my dog would have been the front dog if they were not with it to begin with. Of course this is all my OPINION but I've been told on this very board by someone that they thought I wasn't an experienced beagler. I guess because I don't trail my 55+ years of having beagles and rabbit hunting is not experience. I beg to differ as it has given me the insight to form my own OPINION of what I think a rabbit dog is.

Hare Chaser
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by Hare Chaser »

There's plenty of very good trial dogs that are very good gun dogs. Believe it or not, they should be synonymous. There was a point where I once felt any good hare/rabbit hound should be able to run under any and all conditions. If there is such hounds, they are extremely rare. In my older years my "opinions" are changing on things. Say what you want about the trial dogs but I can tell you that here in the Northeast and in the upper mid-west regions there are some very, very good trial dogs that are equally as good gun dogs. Personally, I'm leaning more towards getting dogs from guys that gun the same dogs they trial and so far I'm liking what I see.

ericwaddle3
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Re: gun dogs :vs: trial dogs---how about MEAT dogs? !

Post by ericwaddle3 »

A truly good dog is one in the same. I trail and hunt the same dogs. Are they the best out there? No, of course not. But they can win a trail one weekend and fill the tailgate up the next.
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