males or females?

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Have seen this topic discussed many times on this board and have heard all the arguments both pro and con.
And in the past it seemed to me that most folks that posted favored the male dogs by a wide margin.The reasons being the common ones of tougher,harder going,don't have to deal with heat cycles and laying them up,breeding ability,etc.,etc. The same reasons I guess that mares very seldom have ever won the Ky. Derby or the Preakness and Belmont---can't beat the studs???
So tell me.I have a litter right now and will have some for sale.90% of the folks that have contacted me with an interest in a pup ALL want females and in the past 21 years of raising beagle pups it has always been more folks wanting females. I could sell 10 females for every one male. So what gives?
All the talk about the males but????? Everybody wants a female.
Just wondering.

[Aubrey Holcombe]

Same thing here at Daddy Rabbit Kennels ?

I been pricing my females a good bit higher, and same story just can't get enough Females, and my ratio is about 30% females.

D.r.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>

[TnHoss]

Same here as well. I keep a mix of both in my kennels and run males one day and females the next. I have found that "MY" males run better on average than my females even when running against littermates.

[HatterasBob]

Dana,
I tend to agree with you, but it goes in cycles. Someone buying a rabbit dog from you is probably looking at the bloodline and you have what that they want. They can purchase a female, breed it once and recoup all of their money. Now males on the other hand, only the best and big males make money off of breeding. I owned IFC Murray's Little Blazer (son of Heli-Prop) for several years and only bred him once or twice and one of those guys stiffed me on the check. Another interesting point is the difference in stud interest between little males and big ones. Nobody wants to breed to a little male, like IFC Murray's Little Blazer or IFC Murray's Little Montana (Trial of Champions's winner). Now I bred Blazer heavily to my females, probably more than a dozen times, but I generally sold my pups as pets, except what I wanted. Now selling male pups, generally males sell best as pets. Several times the males were gone before the first female sold. My best cross with Blazer was with FC Woodeye's Super Girl. Since I made that cross a couple of times, I was looking for a stud. I pulled my paper work out and couldn't find a single male in the AKC, none were sold as pets.

So, do what I do, keep the females you want and sell the rest as pets. With luck and Facebook, the litter will be gone in a weekend and no requirement to deliver any and you can probably get more money per pup. My son sold some designer pups a few months back, paid the up front money for ads in the papers and sold a few. He then tried Facebook and the phone blew up. It opened my eyes and it's free.

What is the cross you made?
Bob

[Hare Chaser]

It's pretty simple in my book.........if you've got a good female you can go anywhere in the country and even Canada and breed to the male of your choice. Got a good male you better be promoting it in some way or fashion if you want pups from him or go buy a good female to breed to him. Good luck with that!

Darn males anyways! PIA when females are in heat, pizz all over everything including you if ya stand still to long and are often bone heads.

All that said, I went and bought a male last spring that I really, really like! Weak moment I guess!!

[Hurricane Creek]

Dana,

Having hunted with the sire and dam and seen them run ... Given their pedigree and your price... I would've thought the whole litter would be gone in a flash. Wish I had room.

Ed

[S.R.Patch]

Firstly, always breed for yourself. If you believe in your hounds, it's always easier and more interesting to keep them around longer and see how they develop to get the big picture of how your doing.
I remember Pott's puppy mill, he bred massively in the pet production. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't see the enjoyment myself, I'd rather raise rabbits...lol
A good male is hard to beat, but you can become waterloged with so-so males, Good bitches w/ your favorite breeding behind them are always like panning for gold and you know how gold fever strikes the commoner. Bitches usually have the sweeter disposition and want to please, hard to beat the focus and deadly hunt of a good bitch. jmho
The easiest way to sell pups is right out of the starting pen for a small premium. Many don't have the time to give to a pup and few are better than the breeder if he has the time. My cousin wanted to get more into beagling and now he rarely sells a weaned pup, most all come from his starting pen @ 4-6 months old running wild rabbit, folks like to see the bloom on the flower.
I remember when Steve Cory had Ranger Dan, he was honest enough to tell people to breed Dan to tighter mouth, harder hitting bitches. I think he was one of those little males at stud that people liked anyway.
My buddy bought a bitch from a popular line and bred her back into the line. He had the awfullest time selling those pups, people that had the line and seemingly wanted a pup never followed through on their commitment or they wanted him to deliver the pups to them. Oddly, some of them were even popular folks on these beagle boards.
My advice to anyone is, never make a breeding if your not willing to commit to following through raising the hounds. Success and failure both build character.
I know you will do well by your puppies, I guess it's just you seem nervous and they're only just born...

[Pine Mt Beagles]

Patch
Makes some very good points,,

As A Breeder,I will say if you are going to Rabbit Hunt,Field Trial Etc.You Must ,first Breed your own Dogs ,to CONSISTANTLY get what you want and need.
And the Most important Part is Having A Good Producing Bitch Line,Such as ,Litter Mates to those,Big Males ,you love to Run all night.
When you get those Females,that you Breed and Hunted and Runned with their big Brothers,,,,


PUT THEM IN THE BROOD PEN ,,,JUST ONE ,IS MORE VALUABLE THAN THE MALES.You will wish you did this later.its like insurance,,if something happens and you loose your entire pack,,it can happen.
YOU HAVE THE A BILITY TO GET THEM BACK

I know some says ,you can make money ,off a Good Stud Dog and Many Do Just that Make Money,,,But,,A True Breeder will Not Offer a Stud to the Public,Because it opens you Dog up to Many Incompatable Females,Destroying His Reproduction Rate.

When you make you breeding ,after you lost a couple weeks of sleep worrying about it,,,then you have to keep them all,so you can have a honest ,Culling system,meaning each pup ,gets looked at the same way ,,by the same person.
A Starting pen is a down right blessing to give every pup and owner the tools needed to see if,the breeding was


For ,,Hunters and Field Trialers ,if you have ,,good males or Females.Run the Heck out of and enjoy ,,them maybe keep a male around for if the Female thing comes along.


When one gets older or,you loose one etc,,,Find A ,,Breeder ,,,who has dogs you like.and get one and your Val in business..

Good Luck

[Shady Grove Beagles]

I made a post just wondering what other's thoughts were on the subject...... and for the record S.R. Patch, I'm not nervous at all.If all the folks that have called and assured me they want a pup are being honest than all pups have been spoken for.
S.R. Patch you said "Always breed for yourself". I assure you there is no other reason that I raise a litter.If you look at my post in up-coming litters you will see that I said " I have NEVER raised a litter just to sell,I only raise a litter when I want one".
Both S.R.Patch and Pine Mt. Beagles mention keeping the whole litter and starting them all.In a perfect beagling world I agree with you.That is IF you have enough time ,money,running grounds and your whole world is the dogs.I had a friend years ago that was financially set,was retired and lived about 10 miles from the Vermont Beagle club.He would keep a whole litter of 7-8 pups and start them all.He would get up everyday and load up those young dogs and spend most of his days at the club running and evaluating them.His world at that time WAS the beagles.He would keep them all until they were 10 months or so old and then keep what he wanted and sell the rest. And he didn't get a " small premium" for all his time and effort.He priced them to where a lot of folks wouldn't spend that kind of money on a young dog but those that did got exactly what they were looking for.
Keeping and starting a whole litter sounds good in theory but the reality for most of today's beaglers is far different. Any of you that are on this board regularly will no doubt have noticed ALL THE MANY,MANY and I say again MANY dogs that at 8 months to 14 months old are regularly for sale because the owner "just hasn't had the time to start them"? Too busy with work,school,kids,church,fishing,sports,etc.,etc.And the one that I love"I've got too many dogs "! You've got too many dogs?? How'd that happen,they start falling out of the sky?
I'd say a very LARGE percentage of the beaglers posting on this site don't have the time to put in to the dogs they do have never mind trying to keep and raise a whole litter [or more ] of pups and evaluate them properly.Just look at all the posts you see from guys in every part of the country looking for starting pens and others to get their pups started for them.Now you're paying someone else to start,work and give you their evaluation as to what your pups are doing?? Many of today's beaglers are not interested in pups;raising them,starting them,working them, enjoying their progressing development and making that bond with a hunting companion.They want a finished product.
And Pine Mt. Beagles.As long as I'm on a roll here............ "put them in the brood pen". I'm not raising hogs here and keeping "brood" sows.These females are my hunting dogs.
As always JMHO

[warddog]

Good post Shady and you said it pretty much like it is. Most folks, I know that have hounds today do NOT eat, live and breath them for many, many reasons. Those that have plenty of decent hunting grounds close by do not know how lucky they are as that may probably be one of the biggest reasons we do not get our dogs out like we did in yester years. When I retired I thought I'd have ALL the time in the world to do it BUT even with no children, I've found that TIME gets away from you so fast I often wonder how I had it to WORK 40+ hours a week and still maintain a home. I did get deep into coon hounds and trials back in the day as well as being a member of a club. Worked all day and out most of the night chasing hounds and then away to hunts on Friday, Saturday nights. It took me several years to STOP and think what my wife was thinking all the time I was gone as the home repairs took a back seat. I came to the realization in the grand scheme of things those titles, trophies, plaques, ribbons meant absolutely nothing and in fact all I had were sold in a garage sale. Hunting and hounds USED to be a way of life for my entire family for generations but those ole days are long past gone for many, many reasons and MOST of us hang on to those good ole days by keeping it as a hobby. It's amazing how quickly life passes us by and our priorities change as well as the habitat, the mindset of others especially land owners, game numbers, costs, etc. I am also like Shady if and when I breed it is for me only and even at that I have allowed my good females to get age on them without restocking. TIME GETS AWAY FROM US very quickly!

[Pine Mt Beagles]

If you read all the post I said ,Run your Males and Females and Enjoy them.

You cannot always keep all,of A Litter,, I have always give more pups and started dogs away than I sold.

To Friends who Hunted, that I Trusted to give them a Chance ,and so I could see them later.

There is Much more ,to being A Breeder than getting one Dog Pointed North and one
Pointed South.

I got to see a lot of Hunters this past Season while Riding My side by side around places I use to Hunt.

It was very disappointing what I saw,

You could barley ride down the roads and talk with the Hunters for the So Called Rabnit Dogs Walking the Roads and if the only Hound Hunting did Jump a Rabbit a 100 yds was a long race ,,Not all Hounds were this bad most were worse.

The Field Trialers I have talk with say the same thing ,Hunt ,Nose and Brains are in short supply in today's Hounds.

There are still good ones out there just less.


As A Breeder, I found I could not breed more than Two litters a year ,with any consistency.


And this goes back to male or female,I will leave it there unless someone wants to start A thread for discussing Breeding.

I didn't mean to high jack this thread.


I love these little Hounds ,,and as a Breeder/Hunter I Only had one Goal ,,,to ,,,Better the Breed.

One point I wanted to add,if,you can only keep one I would keep a Female,,,for every really,, Good ,,Male ,,when I say good I mean the total package,you will see at least 10 good Females,,

[Swampman]

It's pretty simple in my book.........if you've got a good female you can go anywhere in the country and even Canada and breed to the male of your choice. Got a good male you better be promoting it in some way or fashion if you want pups from him or go buy a good female to breed to him. Good luck with that!

Darn males anyways! PIA when females are in heat, pizz all over everything including you if ya stand still to long and are often bone heads.

All that said, I went and bought a male last spring that I really, really like! Weak moment I guess!!

Good post and I agree, if you have a good bitch line, you can breed to a good male for a stud fee.

You're glad you had that weak moment now, aren't you!

I made a post just wondering what other's thoughts were on the subject...... and for the record S.R. Patch, I'm not nervous at all.If all the folks that have called and assured me they want a pup are being honest than all pups have been spoken for.
S.R. Patch you said "Always breed for yourself". I assure you there is no other reason that I raise a litter.If you look at my post in up-coming litters you will see that I said " I have NEVER raised a litter just to sell,I only raise a litter when I want one".
Both S.R.Patch and Pine Mt. Beagles mention keeping the whole litter and starting them all.In a perfect beagling world I agree with you.That is IF you have enough time ,money,running grounds and your whole world is the dogs.I had a friend years ago that was financially set,was retired and lived about 10 miles from the Vermont Beagle club.He would keep a whole litter of 7-8 pups and start them all.He would get up everyday and load up those young dogs and spend most of his days at the club running and evaluating them.His world at that time WAS the beagles.He would keep them all until they were 10 months or so old and then keep what he wanted and sell the rest. And he didn't get a " small premium" for all his time and effort.He priced them to where a lot of folks wouldn't spend that kind of money on a young dog but those that did got exactly what they were looking for.
Keeping and starting a whole litter sounds good in theory but the reality for most of today's beaglers is far different. Any of you that are on this board regularly will no doubt have noticed ALL THE MANY,MANY and I say again MANY dogs that at 8 months to 14 months old are regularly for sale because the owner "just hasn't had the time to start them"? Too busy with work,school,kids,church,fishing,sports,etc.,etc.And the one that I love"I've got too many dogs "! You've got too many dogs?? How'd that happen,they start falling out of the sky?
I'd say a very LARGE percentage of the beaglers posting on this site don't have the time to put in to the dogs they do have never mind trying to keep and raise a whole litter [or more ] of pups and evaluate them properly.Just look at all the posts you see from guys in every part of the country looking for starting pens and others to get their pups started for them.Now you're paying someone else to start,work and give you their evaluation as to what your pups are doing?? Many of today's beaglers are not interested in pups;raising them,starting them,working them, enjoying their progressing development and making that bond with a hunting companion.They want a finished product.
And Pine Mt. Beagles.As long as I'm on a roll here............ "put them in the brood pen". I'm not raising hogs here and keeping "brood" sows.These females are my hunting dogs.
As always JMHO

[Hare Chaser]

You're glad you had that weak moment now, aren't you!

99.99% of the time!!

[S.R.Patch]

I made a post just wondering what other's thoughts were on the subject...... and for the record S.R. Patch, I'm not nervous at all.If all the folks that have called and assured me they want a pup are being honest than all pups have been spoken for.
S.R. Patch you said "Always breed for yourself". I assure you there is no other reason that I raise a litter.If you look at my post in up-coming litters you will see that I said " I have NEVER raised a litter just to sell,I only raise a litter when I want one".
Both S.R.Patch and Pine Mt. Beagles mention keeping the whole litter and starting them all.In a perfect beagling world I agree with you.That is IF you have enough time ,money,running grounds and your whole world is the dogs.I had a friend years ago that was financially set,was retired and lived about 10 miles from the Vermont Beagle club.He would keep a whole litter of 7-8 pups and start them all.He would get up everyday and load up those young dogs and spend most of his days at the club running and evaluating them.His world at that time WAS the beagles.He would keep them all until they were 10 months or so old and then keep what he wanted and sell the rest. And he didn't get a " small premium" for all his time and effort.He priced them to where a lot of folks wouldn't spend that kind of money on a young dog but those that did got exactly what they were looking for.
Keeping and starting a whole litter sounds good in theory but the reality for most of today's beaglers is far different. Any of you that are on this board regularly will no doubt have noticed ALL THE MANY,MANY and I say again MANY dogs that at 8 months to 14 months old are regularly for sale because the owner "just hasn't had the time to start them"? Too busy with work,school,kids,church,fishing,sports,etc.,etc.And the one that I love"I've got too many dogs "! You've got too many dogs?? How'd that happen,they start falling out of the sky?
I'd say a very LARGE percentage of the beaglers posting on this site don't have the time to put in to the dogs they do have never mind trying to keep and raise a whole litter [or more ] of pups and evaluate them properly.Just look at all the posts you see from guys in every part of the country looking for starting pens and others to get their pups started for them.Now you're paying someone else to start,work and give you their evaluation as to what your pups are doing?? Many of today's beaglers are not interested in pups;raising them,starting them,working them, enjoying their progressing development and making that bond with a hunting companion.They want a finished product.
And Pine Mt. Beagles.As long as I'm on a roll here............ "put them in the brood pen". I'm not raising hogs here and keeping "brood" sows.These females are my hunting dogs.
As always JMHO

Shady, I am happy your puppies have been spoken for, but as you refer to past post, many have gotten commitments only to have buyers back out.
I am also sorry I took too much for granted assuming your retirement and country travels allowed you the time and finance to raise and put in the time with a litter of pups.
I was only offering my opinion to anyone who wanted to breed a litter and build for the future, as I thought it pertained to your question of male vrs female choosing. Sorry if it came across I was directing every thing at you, but many upstarts have these type questions of "how and what to do for improving their pack by breeding their own".
As far as the majority of your post, all those excuses you've given about folks not having time/money, well the simple answer is, they just lack the commitment to accomplish what their after. Excuses are always the easy way out. Somebody wants what someone else has, but it too hard. They have the truck, the dogbox, the guns, the tracker/shock collars, the video phone cameras but no money or time the raise good hounds. There's always a good excuse...
Best of luck with your puppies...

[Shady Grove Beagles]

S.R.Patch
I do have the finances and the time here in my retirement to raise and keep an entire litter and then to keep them through their starting on rabbits.I just don't have the inclination.
Make no mistake about it,my hounds are a very important part of my life and i have not been without a hunting dog of my own during the past 45 years.
Given that I will say that the dogs are not my life.I try to keep my priorities in line and the beagles are not at the top.Wife,children,grand children,church all come before the beagles.
Keeping an entire litter of say 7 pups which is what I'm raising right now to the point where I could truly evaluate them all at what 6 months,8 months,a year old? Would require a lot of time in the field,money for their care in regards to feeding,shots,worming,vet care,housing and clean-up and add 7 more dogs to the 4 I regularly keep. Plus it would take away from my 4 grown hunting dogs the time I enjoy running and gunning with them.I'm just not interested in committing that much to what I consider my hobby.
I'm a small backyard breeder / kennel never having kept more than 4-5 grown dogs kenneled at one time.When I raise a pup here and it turns in to the type of hound that suits me the dog is here for it's entire life.I don't buy,sell,trade or move dogs looking for the newest and greatest.
Raising and keeping and starting an entire litter is a good way to get the best pup out of that litter or at least the pup at 6 or 8 months old showing you the most, but still not necessarily a guaranty.
I like taking a single pup and putting all my time in to him / her and developing that connection that makes us a hunting team.
But,if you are really wanting to make SURE you are getting exactly what you desire in a hunting beagle and you've got the finances than don't fool with a pup or a litter.Go find yourself a reputable houndsman and buy a well started young hound from him.You'll be much further along in your quest.
Very few of us in this beagling sport are going to develop our own "line" of hounds or accomplish that grandest of all pinnacles in the sport of "bettering the breed".Not many Branko Krpans out there that can keep 100 beagles and raise a dozen litters a year ,keep 20-30 young hounds in the kennel,run them everyday,have 100's of fenced acres and thousands more acres accessible with unlimited hare to train on and then have a continuing customer base to sell all those young hounds he does not chose to keep at home.
I'll stick to trying to raise a litter every couple of years out of two above average rabbit dogs,keep one for myself that hopefully makes a good addition to my pack and try to place the others with hunters/trialers/pleasure runners who will give those pups all the opportunity and woods time to make them a lifetime quality hunting companion.
As always JMHO.