Run to catch

A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)

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Aubrey Holcombe
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Location: Royston, Georgia
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Re: Run to catch

Post by Aubrey Holcombe » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:52 am

Dana:

She sounds. like one of them. Once in a lifetime Gun Dogs. With lots of that White, and those Solid Black Feet Pads,better look Out !! Talk about some nice looking Blue Ticks. I will not forget that my experience wit B.T's My first litter from my "Jeb" male that I got off Miss Sally from the Oakhill Kennels, there in Ky. was marked with lots of white and she explained to me, the exact thing about the blue ticks coming on later, and sure enough they was some fine looking pups, but I wasn't expecting any of my Red's throwing that many ? I kept him for 7 years an breed him to every Red/tan/white female that I owned and Never got a Red Pup? That is one thing for sure that Blue is definitely, dominate on throwing Ticks ! I don't care what color they may be, I am looking for good Gun Dogs. With good hunt and not Trashy.

Thanks for the Photo, of them nice looking new born pups, they looking good. Looking like we going to end up with some good looking and running hounds, and not many good spots to gun hunt close by any more.

D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>> :check:
ARHA Hall Of Fame, own "The Daddy Rabbit Kennels", Royston, Georgia

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: Run to catch

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:01 pm

Was out running yesterday and having some pretty good races.Dogs had one going in pretty good shape and he lit out headed towards an old tumbled down barn where I've put rabbits under before
By the time I got over there the dogs had shut up and I hollered them out and as they came to me I noticed my Tess wasn't moving right.Upon further examination I found she had a wicked gash that went from under her groin and all the way across her belly to the other side.She wasn't bleeding too bad but her hide was laid open in a big flap about 14 inches.Cut like a knife.
All I can figure is she was after the rabbit and got cut on some old roofing tin in all the junk ???
Trip to the vet and several hundred dollars later she's got about 40 stitches and a couple of drains in her but looks like she'll be fine in a couple of weeks.
Tough little dog !
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Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: Run to catch

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:12 pm

Was on Face Book today and got a friend request from a beagler I didn't know. I checked him out on his F.B. page and saw on his friend's list the names of two men that had bought male pups from me back in 2008 out of Shady Grove's To The Max and Shady Grove's Sassy Sierra. I'd lost touch with these guys after they got the pups and always wondered how the dogs turned out for them.
I messaged Nusmir Ademovic and asked him if he knew anything about these two male dogs that were purchased by Ermin Kararik and Himzo Bosnjak that would now be 11 years old.
He told me Ermin's dog had been lost in the woods while hunting and sent me this photo of Himzo's dog at 11 years old.
Direct quote from Nusmir Ademovic that came with the photo " they were tru rabbit dogs at their prime they could run 36 hours straight. Drop them Friday 8:00 P.M. and pick them up Sunday at 10:00 A.M."
My Rainy and Bob Ferranti's Daisy were litter mates and they both also possessed an incredible amount of bottom.
This past October we ran hare in northern New Hampshire for 5 days and Daisy at 10 1/2 years old ran everyday with hounds half her age and looked like she did when she was a 5 year old.
Thanks for this picture Nusmir. Hadn't seen this old boy since he left my kennel 11 years ago.
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Aubrey Holcombe
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Re: Run to catch

Post by Aubrey Holcombe » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:56 pm

Dana:

That is a very nice built hound, with all that open marking, kind of reminds me of the Old DFJ hounds. I wouldn't think that you ever ran any of that bloodline? Those Dogwood Kennels, from up there in Tenn. at one time ran lots of this but they were not Run To Catch..

Thanks for the photo. I love to see photo's of Good Gun Dogs.

D.R.~~~~~~~~~~>>
ARHA Hall Of Fame, own "The Daddy Rabbit Kennels", Royston, Georgia

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: Run to catch

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:58 pm

Daddy Rabbit
You're pretty smart for an old fart ! LOL.
When I moved to Tn. 23 years ago I brought 3 beagles with me.Those hounds were all from some of the best northern hare breeding [Blue Ninja,Birch Haven Merlin and Clarence Ward's Green Mountain breeding ]. They had all been started and run on hare .None of them had ever seen a cottontail rabbit before.
After several months of running these dogs on cottontail I came to several conclusions.I had all the hunt I needed as my 3 beagles were jumping rabbits with no problems.I had plenty of foot as they could push them.Appeared I had enough nose and proper use of voice and I liked the dogs I had.
I did need dogs that stayed tighter in the check area and were closer on the line.The hare breeding,their desire to push hard and their ability to trail fast along with their previous experience running hare led to some over running and getting too wide at a loss in the check.
I started looking at what I considered a "true" southern cottontail dog that had the traits of hunt,nose,voice and personality looking to improve accuracy on this type of rabbit.
I ran with several and settled on a line bred male called M.L.'s Hurricane Bo. He wasn't nearly as quick as my hounds but he was exceptional in all the other traits I wanted.
Here's the kicker Daddy Rabbit--- Bo was out of William Wall's D.F.J.White Hoss,who was out of D.F.J. Smokey of Mud Lake,who was out of D.F.J. Chuck Wong x D.F.J. Hedda H.Chuck Wong was out of Nab-A-Line Nimrod x D.F.J. Suzie White.Hedda H was out of D.F.J.Hoss Bean x D.F.J.Bonnie M.
Bo's bottom side also had D.F.J. Smokey of Mud Lake,D.F.J.Chuck Wong and D.F.J. Hedda H.
After 21 years of following coonhounds I knew if you were going to make an outcross looking to acquire certain traits that you needed a line bred outcross.
I was extremely fortunate in that the cross of Bo to my female out of I.F.C. Maravic's Blue Ninja gave me everything I wanted from the cross and that doesn't happen very often.
I kept the foot and got tighter line runners and excellent check work that i have seen passed down in the proceeding generations.
A male out of that cross that I sold to Mike Grosch named Shady Grove's Patch became a Grand Rabbit Champion winning the Tennessee State Hunt,Mississippi State Hunt and was Runner Up Hound of the Year.I bred to Patch three times and bred his daughters with good results.Patch was able to pass along his traits.
So Daddy Rabbit -- yes, there is some D.F.J. behind my hounds but it's about five generations back now.
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Aubrey Holcombe
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Re: Run to catch

Post by Aubrey Holcombe » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:13 am

When I was a kid, and that been Awhile back, some folks asking me how old I was ? So I fine this a real good story to tell folks,, I say do you remember that Whale, " Moby Dick'' he was the White one, when he was a Minnow, he and I played in the creek over there on Beaver Dam ! Now that been awhile ago !

Well them Dogwood, Tenn. boys was running a lots of them Open Mark DFJ hounds when they started up the P.P.Division of the ARHA. I was trying to run my Gun Dogs, when them L.P.Hounds they way too crazy running all over the woods Head High and Hit and Miss, style. Now that Line control with good foot was just what I was looking for, so I fell in love and ran them Sunshine Mill's Hound of the year, I did very well, meet Mr. George Blane and we became the best of friends, he was the man that Everett Morgan gave the permission to use his $ a Thousand buck get some folks together and draw up the Rules and Regulations, and get the P.P.going, i like the Certification of hound's to become Ch. and Gr.Ch. Mr. Everett got the contract with the Dog Feed Co. over there at Red Bay, Ala. Sunshine Mills. total I won was $2,500 and 2500 pounds of that Sportsman Price feed, that was some good feed.

The Dogwood boys was always, Talking about the Hounds that got off the fellow that Named his hounds, with the initial of his boys, DFJ according to them Dennis, Frank, James now, that was what they said ? The Mainmain hound was not even what I call a 6 he was slow ran a lots like the Tank male ran.

Gotta get back to bed,, was up on my pee break and checked to see that you been trying to Educate, the Ol Fart~~> :nod:

D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> :annoyed:
ARHA Hall Of Fame, own "The Daddy Rabbit Kennels", Royston, Georgia

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: Run to catch

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:28 pm

Look at all these bluetick pups!
Very pleased with this litter of pups out of Josh Stofer's Bone Box Blue Spook and my Shady Grove's Tn. High Test.These are some of the prettiest pups I've ever raised and given the ability of their parents and the pedigrees behind them have high expectations for their success as field trial participants and everyday gun dogs in the field.
I'm not a field trialer but Josie has proven herself as one of the best most accurate track dogs I've ever owned and definitely is a "run to catch" hound.
I've gun hunted with Spook numerous times and he gets it done with the gun and has enjoyed much success competing in the Mid-West,Mid South and Southern Large Pack trials.
Very excited that the folks getting these pups are men who will do their best to give these pups every opportunity.[attachment=0]DSCN0237 (600 x 450).jpg[/attachment]
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Aubrey Holcombe
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Re: Run to catch

Post by Aubrey Holcombe » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:57 pm

Bossmen:

I Been to Two , World's Fairs, a Worm Wrestling Contest, a Goat Get Together. Nerve seen anything that nice looking,, in my life !! When folks say they as Pretty as a Speckle Pup got to be talking about that Litter !!

Thanks for the Photo's I see some about the size, that would Make a Red Neck, Proud ~ :check:

D.R.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Dixie Land~~> :dance:


































.
ARHA Hall Of Fame, own "The Daddy Rabbit Kennels", Royston, Georgia

warddog
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Re: Run to catch

Post by warddog » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:36 am

That's a great looking litter of blue tics. Always loved them even when coon hunting just never owned but one blue tic coon hound that was Dave Dean's Northern Blue Hammer line bred. Never did own a blue tic beagle but love those that look like the old time coon hound blues with the black heads.

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: Run to catch

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:38 pm

Hey Warddog
I kept registered Bluetick coonhounds for 20 years from 1975-1995. I met Dave Dean of Bluetick fame a couple of times but never owned any of his breeding. I had dogs from Elbert Vaughn's bloodline for most of the time and the last Bluetick I had had Warren Haslouer Smokey River bloodline.
From my experience all these black headed bluetick beagle pups will end up with tan heads-- in fact they are starting to turn now.
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TRK
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Re: Run to catch

Post by TRK » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:53 pm

A friend of mine has a dog that is loaded with old Vaughn blood. He has an outstanding mouth.

mybeagles
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Re: Run to catch

Post by mybeagles » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:06 am

What do you guys say when you run with someone that claims to have "run to catch" dogs that have no control or check area? I enjoy the beagler's I've met the last 25 years in the Midwest but cant stomach the lack of control or flow to a race. I explored the UBGF dogs, raising 13 pups, nearly all double or triple mated dogs the past 3 years but I'm sorry to say most are slow for no reason, lack nose and hunt.

Currently I'm working with a litter I bred crossing the two extremes. Used two quality hounds and have cut the 8 pups down to the two 1 year olds I think best represent what I was looking for. I know most would discourage this method but I was exhausted with the dogs in either extreme. I would really like more of what I have but not looking to digress to either extreme.

I know this topic gets wore out but as I see it this is the biggest failure in beagles today. Why does it seem like so much polarization is taking place...the extremes seem to be getting more extreme. I judged a SPO trial with the fast style hounds and had to get down to 4 dogs in winners pack before I had any check area and dogs were not blasting 50 yards off the end. I'm reluctant to cast all the blame on the judges because as a judge I realize your not always given much.

Thoughts?
Rose City Bubble Guts
Rose City Juice Is Worth the Squeeze

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: Run to catch

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:23 pm

Why is it that the term "run to catch" in some folks minds always = "no control or check area"?
If you want to generalize and believe that any hound with more foot than say medium speed can't stay on their game and keep the rabbit,hare or swamper circling than it's probably useless to try and convince you otherwise.
I started coon hunting in 1974 and for the next 21 years was pretty active in the competition Nite Hunts. During that time I also did a lot of bear hunting with hounds and also ran on bobcat on snow with hounds. Here in Tn. I lived out in the country and there was a 200 acre fox/coyote pen adjoining the back of my property and across the bean field out front was a 125 acre pen. I had the opportunity to watch those hounds run numerous times and visit with the guys that owned them.
After almost 50 years of following hounds all I can say to you is that there is a HUGE difference between hounds that are content to just TRAIL their game and those that RUN IT TO CATCH IT !
And in the famous words of Forrest Gump "that's about all I have to say about that".
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mybeagles
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Re: Run to catch

Post by mybeagles » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:13 pm

Apparently I relayed the wrong message. I like a run to catch hound and am striving for such. I think there are run to catch hounds that run with control but they seem to get harder and harder to find. Lots of wild coyote hounds and lots of slow as pond water.
Rose City Bubble Guts
Rose City Juice Is Worth the Squeeze

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: Run to catch

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:24 pm

One night when I was sitting around the fire with a bunch of the fox / coyote hunters [actually not hunters as they didn't run on the outside anymore-- only in enclosures due to deer and roads nowadays ] they were saying "we need to get rid of so and so and named 4-5 different hounds.
I waited for an explanation and when it wasn't offered asked "why"?
They then said that the aforementioned hounds were bad to catch the coyotes. I said well aren't they then the best hounds you've got?
They said that they were paying $55.00 a coyote and $100.00 for a red fox to stock their pen and they couldn't have hounds that were too hard going and catch their game.They just wanted to sit around the fire all night and hear a chase.
From where I'm coming from that was unbelievable ! They were culling out their game getters for a pack of slow trailing hounds that never put the pressure on the game !
I think there is a whole fraternity of beaglers who like that same type of hound and that's fine for them but I'm not one of them.
Years ago when I first started coon hunting I kept a book with me and I recorded all of my hunts where game was taken. Weather conditions ie rain,dry,humid,snow, temp.,etc., scenting conditions,where I was hunting,what dogs were with me,who struck first,who treed first and any other particulars that i felt were important to the hunt and hound performance.
I've continued to do that with the beagles. I was looking at my book from the past two gun seasons and you'd think I was b.s ing you if I showed you how many rabbits these 4 females I,m running ran down and caught. I'm not talking about on the jump. I'm talking about staying on them long enough and hard enough to catch them.
A hound can't do that if he has no control and is constantly blowing out of the check area.
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