Nose

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Hippy
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Western Maryland

Nose

Post by Hippy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:00 pm

I have always described a "Big Nose" dog as one who could run a rabbit "Down a Dirt Road" without any issues--unfortunately I have only ever owned 2 that could do that day in and day out.

Living in Mary Land as I do the issue is more so with Frost than anything else, My present dogs can run on the Snow BUT really struggle on Frost-- ran them Friday & Saturday and until the Frost burnt off I should have stayed home.

Most of the dogs ( SPO Style) I now own are Coco Bear( Coco Star & Rockefeller) and two have a touch of Buck Shot (AKA J-Bird) --I have a Black Creek/Cotton Country gyp that is a step too slow for the others although she does have the BIGGEST nose.

My opinion -which does not count for much- is that the reason they struggle with Frost so much is because a lot of the track they try to run is beneath the Frost -the dirt road issue is because they can only run Foot scent as there is No body scent left behind

I guess what my main question can I find a BIG nose AKA Dirt road /Frost proof breed that is NOT MOUTHY ? I have had only 3 of them in 55 + years

Thanx
Jim
"Today is the 1st DAY,of the rest of your Life"

gfedor
Posts: 341
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:01 pm

Re: Nose

Post by gfedor » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:08 pm

That's a tough one Jim. I've been around the hounds 30 plus yrs, and yes usally big nose come a mouthy dog, some more than others. I prefer a nice honest mouth, opens up when rabbit is up or straighten out, however my go to dog late in season, when Temps are single digits, once was minus 13 with wind chill on a frozen over pond, my female will run the rabbit like it's a 50 degree day. But she does extra bark at times, give her time it will also lead to the jump, which is also a benifit of a cold nose dog. I only gun hunt, so an extra yap or 2 doesn't bother that much.
I did a couple of YouTube clips of her, more to come.
YouTube Gene Fedor beagles

Good hunting to all this year

HatterasBob
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:47 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Nose

Post by HatterasBob » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:32 am

Jim,
I feel your pain. I also live in Maryland. That last statement you made is the kicker "I guess what my main question can I find a BIG nose AKA Dirt road /Frost proof breed that is NOT MOUTHY ? I have had only 3 of them in 55 + years". I've only had 1 in 50 years, she was a grade hound and my only serious jump dog. She only went into briers to jump the rabbit. She would wind the rabbit like a bird dog. When she openned, cock your gun. I ran her in packs of hunting dogs up to 25 at a time and she would jump more than 50% of the rabbits and she could run them also. She and her 2 sisters were my first beagles and I got them at 8 weeks old. One got hit by a car at a year old the other was a great track dog and a good jump dog, life was good.

Current day, I've had two gyps out of Primetime, both with huge nose. There were days you wouldn't sell them for a million dollars and days they were lucky to get into the box. I remember 3 different trials were they trailed a rabbit for up to 45 minutes. All the other dogs check'em out a left. Twice they were "Picked up" and both cases they jumped the rabbit before the "UP" left the judges lips. They looked at me and said "I sorry". The other time, I thought it was going to end the same, the judge yelled "I got a line, I got a dog on the line". She walked it up and over the hill and came back for winners pack. In my search for what we experienced, I think a solution was to add Argentival Striker, he was known for brains (think that is what's missing). I paid my stud fee and got zip, his first miss. He was 50 lbs with toenails 2" long, very sad. So close that chapter.

I do have a couple of Canadian snow dog breed females that do a nice job but they are a compromise. They can walk a track when other can't smell it and they are pretty good with their mouths. They had been picked up in trials for being mouthy. In one case she was running baby rabbits, but the judge didn't see them, but I did. The final straw was she jumped a rabbit and barked twice on the jump. The rabbit ran out of the block past the gallery and no body could smell it, I think it was a female rabbit, it was May. The judges picked up the pack and put the next pack on the line, not one bark out of the next 3 hounds.

I did breed my Primetime champion to my IFC Montana. Montana was very hot nosed, so I tried to breed a little nose out of the Primetime. It was a very good cross. One puppy was mouthy and was sold, one I still have and is my best young hound and another is an excellent hound not owned by me. So, you might be able to breed some brains in or nose out, but it will be a compromise.

Good luck

RollingTrack
Posts: 1535
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:56 pm

Re: Nose

Post by RollingTrack » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:09 pm

NEED SOME MOFO IN YOUR KENNEL! :nod: HE FINISHED ON 3.5FT OF SNOW @ -28 DEGRESS!! FROST IS NOT A PROB FOR THAT BLOOD LINE.. :check:
ROLLING KENNELLS
-------HOME of-------
RILEYS ROLLING DIRTY GIRL
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RILEYS ROLLING MISS DIXIE

mcardery2k
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:58 am
Location: Clarksburg WV
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Re: Nose

Post by mcardery2k » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:15 am

I don't post on here much anymore because I think most of the guys like a different style dog than I run. My dogs have huge nose and have always been able to handle the extreme conditions. Unfortunately we have never been able to find the balance between enough nose to run in those conditions and not have issues with mouth. We have just accepted its a trade off. We run year round and here in WV we have about every type weather out there. I think as important as the big nose is the patience to go with it.
Here is a example of what our dogs are capable of.

https://youtu.be/TDg2Sl0ZuT4

https://youtu.be/SW7hb1-n5uc

https://youtu.be/Kf5L183RZ2U
Mark Carder
skyviewsbeagles.com

Hare Chaser
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Nose

Post by Hare Chaser » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:13 am

Mark,

Definitely not my style of dog for sure............and yet........I have so much respect for what you've done in developing a pack of dogs that YOU like and YOU enjoy! Obviously, there are a group of guys you are connected with that enjoy the same. The key to your success in my opinion is that YOU know what YOU want in the dogs you keep. I've watched a bunch of your videos over the years and they all consistently show the same type dogs running the same style and consistently accounting for their game in spite of the conditions. That looks like success in my eyes! Again, not the type of dog that suits my fancy but I can still watch and really appreciate the work you've done over the years. Your videos are always high quality and very watchable!
Thanks for posting and Happy Thanksgiving to you!

mybeagles
Posts: 2147
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:35 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Nose

Post by mybeagles » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:25 am

Hippy, the short answer is NO. Any dog that has the ability/desire to run a track on frost/ice/dirt road will have extra mouth by the trial or average hunters standard.

Now the long answer. Not everyone has the same standard on mouth. Those that hunt in extreme weather most of the season will tolerate and sometimes even appreciate a dog with the ability/desire to run when other dogs are worthless.

What I won't tolerate is a dog that hangs up on a cold track or circles back to rerun a cold track. This requires some intelligence coupled with experience to get the rabbit jumped and moving. The ONLY time I will help a dog get a rabbit jumped is in extreme cold/ice when a dog is working his butt off on a cold track. Often the rabbit is close and busting a little brush provokes a jump. I also believe this teaches a dog to keep moving forward to get the jump.

My goal has always been to have dogs that can run when other are stating "I should have stayed home". It's a different mindset and will often leave you at odds with your Beagling friends. Hare Chaser stated it well. Keep the style hound you like, in the end you will be happier. I tried keeping hounds I thought would be successful in trials and hated them.

Both my dogs are grand pups to J-bird So I suspect we run a similar style.
Rose City Set 'Em Up Joe
Rose City Crooked Hilary

TRK
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:52 am

Re: Nose

Post by TRK » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:38 am

In nearly 40 years of running dogs I owned one back in the 90's that could run under nearly any scenting conditions but absolutely would not open until the rabbit was jumped. She was not AKC registered and I had no idea what I had at the time. I was running some with Don Carder who I know is a relative of yours Mark. I can remember it like it was yesterday we were standing on a gravel road listening to a chase when the rabbit came onto the road ran about 30 yards towards us and cut back into the brush. When the dogs came out my female carried the track down the road and no other dog opened until she had carried it back into the brush. Don looked at me and said that female is an exception to the rule. He said you just don't see a dog with nose like that and no extra mouth. At the time I didn't realize how correct he was. She did that kind of thing on a regular basis on snow, ice, gravel, or any tough conditions. I have never found another like her. When I saw your post Mark it reminded me of Don.

Shady Grove Beagles
Posts: 1329
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: east,Tn..

Re: Nose

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:24 pm

Mr. Carder
I too have watched some of your videos and I can definitely appreciate what your beagles are capable of. Reminds me of watching a Bloodhound work a man's track.Smelling every molecule of scent and never losing it. They are what the old timers here in Tennessee refer to as "beetles".
As Harechaser mentioned it's impressive but myself,I need a hound with a highway gear.
Over the years I've had many opportunities to watch hounds work on coon,bear,bobcat,fisher,squirrels,fox,coyotes,cotton tails,swampers and hare.
I've watched bear dogs that would spend most of a morning cold trailing a track all over the side of a mountain and still never jump him out of his bed.Coon dogs that would boo around all night on a track so old that when they finally did tree it was most often at the coon's den tree.
Have hunted with several beagles over the years that would cold trail around for quite some time while the other 3-4 dogs down with them wouldn't make a bark. Sometimes they would get the rabbit up and sometimes they couldn't and would just peter out.
I know in extreme conditions you need a hound with extreme capabilities in the nose and determination departments if he's going to account for his game.I can appreciate that! I also know fully well that those hounds can come with some baggage such as extra mouth.
Mybeagles stated it has been his goal to have dogs that could run when others say"I should have stayed home" and I can appreciate that. When the conditions are extreme to the point of "I should have stayed home" then I probably will stay home. I have no interest in running beagles on 3.5 feet of snow at-28 below.Neither do I care about pushing my beagles when it's 90+ degrees and the asphalt that you are watching your beagle run a rabbit down is burning his feet.
Hounds that can do the above are a special kind indeed but for my average days gunning and running at say 40-50 degrees I've seen those same hounds drive me to total distraction!
Home of a true hunting beagle that run to catch

mcardery2k
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:58 am
Location: Clarksburg WV
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Re: Nose

Post by mcardery2k » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:23 pm

I appreciate the response. Most of you know that I don't post videos trying to get you to like or change your opinion on what kind of dogs to run. Don is my brother and he is the brains of Skyview's Beagles. I just run the car. Era a d talk the crap. Everybody should run what they like not what someone tells them is best. Anybody that runs big nose dogs knows understands that it's a trade off. We run year round under about evey condition & we have very few rabbits. When we do jump the rabbit it's important to run and not lose the rabbit.
Mark Carder
skyviewsbeagles.com

jlboomer
Posts: 652
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: kentucky
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Re: Nose

Post by jlboomer » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:45 pm

I love my big nose female she can be a little mouthy at times but she strikes and jmps 90% of our rabbits and has gears with a couple places in little pack and holds decent line with spo style dogs I'd love to find another like her
J&M Beagles, Breeding for a true gundog and hunting partner

jlboomer
Posts: 652
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: kentucky
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Re: Nose

Post by jlboomer » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:46 pm

I love my big nose female she can be a little mouthy at times but she strikes and jmps 90% of our rabbits and has gears with a couple places in little pack and holds decent line with spo style dogs I'd love to find another like her
J&M Beagles, Breeding for a true gundog and hunting partner

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