Little pack x UBGF

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Indianabeagler
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:44 am

Little pack x UBGF

Post by Indianabeagler » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:44 pm

I am sure this has been done before. But I have a question about this type of cross and what to expect. I have a male that is a little pack style male that I was thinking about crossing to a UBGF spo female with the idea of getting more control and keeping some speed. I realize I will lose some speed but as long as I keep it upper medium or close I will be happy. If you have done this type of cross before what were your results and the ratio in the litter?

main event`s beagles
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:55 pm
Location: ohio

Re: Little pack x UBGF

Post by main event`s beagles » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:17 pm

call vic constanza of maravic beagles. he crossed some shorts pro in his dogs.

Shady Grove Beagles
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: east,Tn..

Re: Little pack x UBGF

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:44 pm

When I moved to Tennessee from New Hampshire 22 years ago I brought 3 beagles with me.They were all of northern New England and Canadian hare breeding and none of them had ever seen or run a cottontail before.
They had no trouble jumping cottontails but were running them kind of rough and I felt I wanted more control.
After several months of running cottontails they were improving and getting better at putting the brakes on but their genetics dictated how they ran and I felt that when i bred I wanted to introduce some influence that would help to tighten them up a bit.
I bred a Blue Ninja daughter [ Ninja x Greenbrier Charity] to a U.B.G.F. type male that was 100% rabbit dog and line bred D.F.J. He was a hard hunter,good jump dog,a line runner and close check dog and used his mouth right. He certainly was not a slow dog but definitely did not have the foot of my hounds.
I raised a litter of 8 and everyone of them made the type of hound I was looking for. One male [ Gr.R.CH. Shady Grove's Patch ] that was trialed extensively in Little Pack went on to win the Tn. State and the Mississippi State Championships and was Hound of the Year runner-up.Other litter mates were trialed in Little Pack and one championed out and others had places.They all made excellent gun dogs used successfully on cottontail,swampers and hare.
I felt that the cross was successful as the dogs didn't lack for foot yet I got the closer line running and tighter check work I was looking for.
This was the only time I ever made a cross with two really different type of hounds so have no idea what the percentage of results would be.Would guess you could get some that resembled the stud and others that more resembled the bitch.I think I got lucky and got the perfect blending of both.
Given that I'm now keeping the 6'th generation of hounds from that cross and continue to like what I've got.My efforts have always been in line breeding the Blue Ninja blood and I have used a Blue Barry litter mate brother,Greenwell's Reggie and a Reggie son with good results.
Good luck with your efforts. Breeding is often a crap shoot.
Home of a true hunting beagle that run to catch

BMBeagles
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:41 pm

Re: Little pack x UBGF

Post by BMBeagles » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:33 pm

If that dont work out for you some of the weir creek stuff might already be what you are trying to create. I switch to that stuff and like it. Decent speed but have gears too!

mybeagles
Posts: 2163
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:35 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Little pack x UBGF

Post by mybeagles » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:41 pm

Both my dogs come from a similar type cross. The link below offers the pedigree; the bitch goes back to large pack dogs, the top side is all SPO breeding. I got what I was looking for but be advised you won't likely fit in very well at the field trials. When I go to UBGF trials they accuse me of running a hare hound. When I go to Midwest or LP trial they are a step slower. I refer to them as "tweeners" but its right where I like to be. They have a tight check area but normally check forward and have enough speed to keep things exciting. I focus on breeding for desire/hunt, nose, and brains. As long as you get those things the speed will work itself out. The cross below was made twice and I have one from each litter. Ive watched several of the litter mates run and there is some variation in speed but none on the far extremes. My challenge now is figuring out what to cross back in. Its such an extreme outcross that breeding to a line bred dog is going to place a heavy degree of influence on the pups. When the running is real good I think about breeding to a Midwest style hound. When the running gets choppy I start considering a clean and close style dog.

I recommend starting as many of the pups as possible to keep the one closest to your target. There is always a market for the ones too slow or too fast.

https://rosecitybeagles.weebly.com/uplo ... 4_orig.png

Shady Grove,
The first cross after the big outcross did you breed to another SPO dog or go back a LP dog? At some point did you get some throw backs to one extreme or the other? From what I have seen in just a couple crosses like that, most of the pups are generally still pretty quick. Have not seen any that were as slow as the top side of the pedigree.
Rose City Set 'Em Up Joe
Rose City If your Gonna do me Wrong, do it Right
Rose City Right in the Wrong Direction
Rose City Why Stormy Daniels when you got Melania
Rose City Pressure Makes Perfect

Shady Grove Beagles
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:56 pm
Location: east,Tn..

Re: Little pack x UBGF

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:59 pm

mybeagles
The next cross I made was one of the females bred to Knee High Little Man [Blue Barry litter mate brother].He was a R.CH. in A.R.H.A. Little Pack and also had placed in A.K.C. S.P.O. Mid-West.I never used what I would call a true U.B.G.F. style hound again as too much of that type of beagle is just not what I'm interested in.
I kept a male and a female from that cross.I had the male for several years and then sold him to a fellow in Maine that was running a guide service and he used him successfully on hare. The female was about as good a gun dog as a man could want but she wasn't much over 13 ". She was more conservative than my other hounds,would pull up and run with them on hard driving tracks but it was obvious that she was being pulled too hard.Run solo was much more conservative.Her strength was she was an absolute top check dog.One of those that seldom got a 15 second check on the pack but absolutely got ALL the 5-10 minute checks! She was a dog that would save your race every time.
I bred her to Ft.Ch. Filmore's Northern Sly and got 5 males that all turned out to have her traits; above medium speed but for me fairly conservative and their check work was also very good.
I sold her to a friend who bred her to a Little Pack R.Ch. of Gay-Dingus breeding and got pups very much like she was; decent foot kind of conservative[for me] and again excellent check dogs that seemed to always find the rabbit.
I ended up raising a litter out of her and Greenwell's Reggie and that litter made some very nice hounds all of which are still alive and being hunted at 8 years old.These pups all had good foot and were pretty accurate and retained that trait of excellent check ability.Could really gear down and stay on a rabbit.Not as quick as some of the others I had .
Bred one of those males to a Ninja / Shaker female I had and that litter has made nice hounds with med.-fast foot,good hunt,ton of bottom and the trait of really good check work has continued in them and I definitely see my old Echo's influence that I believe came a lot from that initial cross with the the U.B.G.F. hound [ M.L.'s Hurricane Bo].He was line bred top and bottom from a line bred [D.F.J. ] family of beagles and I say I believe his influence in traits is being passed on and showing in following generations even only introduced that one cross.
I've line bred Blue Ninja hounds for the past 20 years and am quite pleased. Even though Ninja was an I.F.C. in Large Pack he was no wind splitter or wild running hound.Had a good reputation for accuracy,concentration,toughness,stamina.Ninja also has one of the best reputations for reproducing and that is seen in following generations.
I have a 11 month old female now that is line bred Ninja background and line bred Jiggs background through Jonah Staten's Samurai.I raised this litter and have now run with several of them and speed and accuracy are hand and glove.They can push pretty hard but seem to be able to hang with the track and know where the point of loss is showing good check work.
I've been doing this hound dog thing for quite awhile now and just really like these hounds.Feel that I've got hounds that will push pretty hard when they can but also know how to keep a race going.
I guess I never really would say their was ever an "extreme" It seemed that the qualities I had wanted to try and add got added/blended and although all the following breedings were with dogs that would best fit Large Pack,Mid-West S.P.O.,Little Pack formats as opposed to definitely not fitting a U.B.G.F. I think they still run a pretty good rabbit/hare most days! LOL !
As always JMHO.
Home of a true hunting beagle that run to catch

Indianabeagler
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:44 am

Re: Little pack x UBGF

Post by Indianabeagler » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:12 pm

BMBeagles wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:33 pm
If that dont work out for you some of the weir creek stuff might already be what you are trying to create. I switch to that stuff and like it. Decent speed but have gears too!
Ive been looking for some weir creek pups.

BMBeagles
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:41 pm

Re: Little pack x UBGF

Post by BMBeagles » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:08 pm

Indiana check out rabbitdogs.net for weir creek pups. I dont keep females or raise pups dont know of any right now either...... good luck

gfedor
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:01 pm

Re: Little pack x UBGF

Post by gfedor » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:03 am

Indianabeagler wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:12 pm
BMBeagles wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:33 pm
If that dont work out for you some of the weir creek stuff might already be what you are trying to create. I switch to that stuff and like it. Decent speed but have gears too!
Ive been looking for some weir creek pups.
I hunted over a pair of daddy rabbit dogs, nice med plus speed, full of hunt,grit, line bred wire creek for a long time.
Look into his website daddy rabbit beagles, also Tim Kahl at high rock beagles, Tim has been line breeding all strains of the wire creek bloodline for 25 plus years, he is a cool guy to talk to. Both guys breed for hunting dogs first and foremost. Still pushes a rabbit at a good pace

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