Why always the sire?

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PAB
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Why always the sire?

Post by PAB » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:53 pm

When I ask a person about the breeding of their dog, they almost always tell me the sires name. No mention of the dogs Dam. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't have a solid bitchline, you don't have a leg to stand on. My question is, why do beaglers count so heavily on the Sire?

weedeater kennel
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by weedeater kennel » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:21 pm

a very good topic

Newt
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by Newt » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:53 pm

Economics?
A male can produce many offspring. Therefore the male is hyped much more. Most successful breeders know the importance of a great bitchline. Its the new wannabes that believe a FC Stud can produce a super dog when bred to Fefe.

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:07 am

If you want to breed and you've got the itch,just remember it starts with the bitch.
Home of a true hunting beagle that run to catch

BMBeagles
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by BMBeagles » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:16 am

Always been that way. And not just in dogs but other
Animals as well.

BCBeagles
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by BCBeagles » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:12 am

Our philosophy is simple...95%.....the traits for both dogs involved....I don't believe nor have a seen a 100% dog...meaning all the traits I want.

You have to set the bar high...not hope for deficiencies to "fill in" from ancestry if they aren't there to begin with.

Meaning dog with lack of line control...no dog in the pedigree has line control like you like and take a female with "extreme" line control and get a whole litter of "just right".....it won't happen often if ever...and if folks tell you they have done it regularly with "entire" litters making "just what I wanted"...I would question there judgement.....and there standard with which they judge by.

But....on topic.....the stud is supposed to overpower every trait...right? He is "proven" to throw huge noses...huge hunt....extreme speed with control the line control of UBGF(the slow ones...LOL)......every dog is claimed to be this...right?

And if you take an average female...with a medium nose...average hunt.....a check area like a walmart parking lot....and focus like a 2 year old toddler....you WILL get a whole litter of "COMPLETE PACKAGE" type hounds........yes...YES.....keep wishing in one hand and crapping in the other...see which one fills up first.........

Always the fault of the sire...never that old cull female old Bocephus brought to him......"she threw gooduns when I bred her to old Shaky and old Buck!!" Now I bred her to old IFC and did not get a darn dog that would strike a lick!!

Good running to all and may every cross produce high quality by your standards!!
Last edited by BCBeagles on Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
Jim Hall
BUFFALO CREEK KENNELS

BREEDING HOUNDS FOR FIELD PERFORMANCE
GUN HUNTERS AND TRIALERS WELCOME ANYTIME! I WILL RUN ANY AND ALL HOUNDS IN MY KENNEL UPON REQUEST.

BMBeagles
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by BMBeagles » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:08 pm

Aint a whole lot of breeders, studs or bitches settin the woods on fire ! Most beagles these days seem to be a jumbled up bunch of bloodlines with different traits . Hard tellin what you gonna get.

Casey Harner
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by Casey Harner » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:44 pm

It’s usually easier to remember the sire’s name because everyone goes crazy over stud dogs. I also agree the female is important and some think the female is more important than the sire, though when the litter don’t turn out, the sire is to blame and the female is not.

You will always remember the sire.
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Beagle Huntsman
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by Beagle Huntsman » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:14 am

BMbeagles made a very true statement. When I look at a pedigree, I always look for what is called the tail male and tail female lines....the very top and bottom of the pedigree. Since some traits are sex-linked, they should carry along that part of the pedigree easier than coming through the middle. But I rarely notice any consistency in beagles. Very very rarely do we see people staying with the sport or a line long enough to have 3 generations with the same kennel name. It’s a problem that keeps us from developing true strains within the breed today. They always have said beagles are a poor man’s sport....easy to get into and easy to get out. Because of this fact, there are a lot of people breeding beagles that should not be.

BCBeagles
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by BCBeagles » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:34 am

BMBeagles wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:08 pm
Aint a whole lot of breeders, studs or bitches settin the woods on fire ! Most beagles these days seem to be a jumbled up bunch of bloodlines with different traits . Hard tellin what you gonna get.
With all due respect....what standard are you using to make this statement...trial records...?

Or actually taking the time to go watch someone run the hounds they have a few times to see if they fit what you want?

Not being controversial, but asking....with technology today...it's easy to get on here and say this dog throws this..that...everything in between. I always say the best way to find out for yourself....not a doubt left, is put in the time and go to the source...go see the dogs...see offspring run...in groups...in mixed company with strange dogs.....evaluate in person....not off of hearsay.

EVERYONE welcome here....I can guarantee this.....we will go to the woods with any and all the dogs you want to see....and we will enjoy ourselves watching and talking dogs. I have said this before.....you may leave here a lot happier with our own.."strain" of hounds.....

Good running to all!!!
Jim Hall
BUFFALO CREEK KENNELS

BREEDING HOUNDS FOR FIELD PERFORMANCE
GUN HUNTERS AND TRIALERS WELCOME ANYTIME! I WILL RUN ANY AND ALL HOUNDS IN MY KENNEL UPON REQUEST.

BMBeagles
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by BMBeagles » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:17 pm

No offense taken mr hall . I dont base anything off of trial
Records . That is just like saying ive never hunted with the dog ! I dont know how it works a check,how it hunts , how it runs the line, how it handles ,mouth,nose,ect,ect,ect. And i dont base anything off of hearsay . And you are right with todays technology its easy to take a trip around the internet and see most beagles are outcrosses . Very few true linebred familys of dogs that consistently produce like characteristics. Ive been fortunate to have the same family of dogs for 18yrs and have only outcrossed once and that was to a linebred family that had the same characteristics as mine! I might be old school but to me (for example) just because a dog has Branko in it dosent mean it runs like a Branko bred dog . Over the years ive had guys want to breed there females to my males and i told them no ! Reason being the pedigrees having 3,4 or 5 different strains mixed together ! Im not stamping my name on that ! Lol .... i dont claim to have anything speacial just meat dogs ! But i do believe in line breeding like characteristics! If I dont I just dont know what to expect !

main event`s beagles
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by main event`s beagles » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:36 pm

maybe like real good athletes the dad is usually talked about :D

Newt
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by Newt » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:55 pm

main event`s beagles wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:36 pm
maybe like real good athletes the dad is usually talked about :D
Most of the real good athletes that I have seen interviewed, always give their Mom the credit.
,

Mike McPherson
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by Mike McPherson » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:33 pm

I think a lot of the reason the stud is talked about is because you can go breed to him for a fee. Males can be
bred much more then females, a female usually has one to three litters a lifetime. If you want a line of your own you have to keep the females and breed to the male you choose. If you have a male you like and no female you have to find someone willing to breed there female so you can get your pups much harder to do then paying a stud fee. To many people breed papers or bloodlines. To have any chance of success you first have to know what you have, second know what you want, then breed to enhance the desired traits. The simple logic is "Breed the best you have to the best you can find". It amazes me how many people have no idea what they have, its a good dog because they own it. If you are inexperienced go run with anybody you can see as many different styles/traits as you can you may see some you like and some you don't. When you breed keep the whole litter get them started and find the couple that shine and go from there. It takes more time then most people have to make a real good one.
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Newt
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Re: Why always the sire?

Post by Newt » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:44 am

Excellent post Mike P. Any new breeder should copy that post and read it prior to any mating. Too many matings are made due to the reputations of Trial hounds that lived decades ago.

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