best run to catch style. (STUD)

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Al114
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best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by Al114 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:50 am

I own this kind of dogs. would like to breed one of my females soon. Looking for your opinion.

BMBeagles
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Re: best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by BMBeagles » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:47 pm

In what conditions are you looking to run to catch in ?

Hare Chaser
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Re: best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by Hare Chaser » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:35 am

Not sure what "I own this type of dogs" means. To some the first thing they think of is speed. From my experience speed isn't as important as the ability to run with minimal to no losses. A dog or dogs that run together as a pack that can run with minimal losses at medium speed will run down a hare or cottontail if it doesn't hole up,by simply exhausting it. This of course assumes your dogs are In running shape and not soft. I should also ad running a hare down on snow is highly unlikely unless it's been injured.

In my opinion if you want dogs that run to catch look for dogs that are at least medium speed that can hang onto the line with minimal losses and that recover the losses they do have in seconds.

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:49 pm

I agree with Harechaser.
It's not about speed per se because if it were then the hound should be able to turn on the after burners and catch the rabbit in short order.If it was all speed related then you'd have to think that all the hound had to do was pick up the pace and catch him.
Now don't get me wrong.I don't believe that the slow type of beagles are going to catch their rabbit. You've got to have some "foot" in your hounds or the rabbit is just going to run off and leave them.
I started a post on this board last Fall titled"Run To Catch" because my pack of four females was running down and catching grown rabbits and I was surprised with the regularity that it was happening.
I don't consider my dogs "super fast" but they're no slouches either.The back ground is Large Pack On Hare and Mid-West hounds and I imagine mine run about like most others you'd find in those formats.
As Harechaser mentioned I believe what was going on was these four run with a very similar style,are accurate on the line,were picking checks very quickly or running almost check free at times and were in shape to be able to put relentless pressure on the rabbits and exhaust them.It wasn't necessarily the speed that these rabbits were being run at although I'm sure that is a factor but more so the pressure that they just couldn't shake the hounds and the hounds having more stamina then the rabbit.
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Swampman
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Re: best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by Swampman » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:11 pm

Dan and Dana are spot on, steady consistent pressure!
One thing I would add is, when you have your own cohesive pack that works as a team makes a huge difference!

Back to the original posters question, I breed my own hounds, but did outcross my FCGD Stinepatch Bonnie to Mitch Anderson’s FCGD Pinehill Twizzler and am very happy with the pups, they will be 2 years old in July and have turned out to be level headed, steady pressure hounds.
Bonnie and Twizzler were very similar running hounds and I don’t think you would go wrong breeding to him.
Last edited by Swampman on Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bowguy
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Re: best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by Bowguy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:39 pm

You know I usually don’t agree w the “run to catch” mindset as most guys doo think its all about speed. The fellows here gave great advice about the pressure.
A dog should never outrun his nose. The desire in every dog should be to catch no matter the speed.
That being said you oughta be more worried about who/what you cross w instead of just any old “run to catch” dog.
What kinda bloodlines are you running??

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:45 am

The term "run to catch" always seems to illicit it's fair share of controversy or interpretation.
For me "run to catch" is more a term I use to describe a hound's attitude in his running style and it also involves his athleticism and his ability to "get after it".
I've been following hounds now for over 50 years and have had the opportunity to follow them after most types of game from hare to bear.
I agree with Bowguy when he says that " the desire of every dog should be to catch no matter the speed". But my experiences and observations tell me that's not always the case.
I've seen beagles that are totally content to follow the trail of a rabbit and never gain any ground in the pursuit and in fact at times the trail actually is getting older/colder on them.These hounds appear to be content to just smell where the rabbit was and not actually overtaking him.To me they are "trailing" the rabbit--not "running" the rabbit.Not my type of rabbit dog.
I've seen the same thing in the bear dogs.Some are of a type that are content to trail that bear for miles through the mountains booing along behind them.They don't put a bear in a tree.The ones that do are the ones that have the athletic ability,stamina and the "run to catch" mentality.
It was the same way when I ran coon hounds.There were hounds that would "black n tan" a track all night long before that coon would tree and others that would grab a track and put on so much pressure that coon needed to climb or get caught on the ground.
Where I live here in Tn. there are a lot of fellows that run what I consider to be a very conservative,slot-up,clean,close,head down,slower type beagle.At risk of making someone mad I'll tell you these are U.B.G.F. trialers.The hounds they are running are NOT "run to catch" hounds!
I run on a W.M.A. where some of these guys run and at times our packs will get together [these guys hate that! ] My hounds will take that rabbit away from them and leave them in the proverbial"dust" as their hounds won't pick up their heads and "get after it". Some of them just don't have the athleticism to do it and it would appear that they don't have the attitude to do it.Two different breeding philosphies.
Breed what you like,run what you like.
AI114.Bowguy gave you some good advice.Take in to consideration what bloodlines you have and try and find a stud with a similar background,one that has produced the type of pups you are wanting,one that you can see go in the field.
You might tell us where you live and some on this board could then direct you to a stud in your area to check out.
Good luck
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ericwaddle3
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Re: best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by ericwaddle3 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:21 pm

I consider mine run to catch and they are an upper medium speed in my opinion. I agree it’s steady pressure It’s hard to judge foot with a garmin because of different scenting conditions but I usually average 4-4.5 mph.
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Hare Chaser
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Re: best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by Hare Chaser » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:34 pm

Regarding the Garmin and mph readings.........remember.........miles per hour may represent speed but it does not always represent accuracy or efficiency. The dog that runs the line with accuracy will be more efficient than the dog that gets wide in the check area consistently. The line running dog will also likely show a lower mph reading at the end of the day.

pabstman
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Re: best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by pabstman » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:46 pm

My dogs consistently show about 3 mph on the Garmin. Some say they are slow but have plenty of speed for me. They seem to circle a rabbit plenty fast.

PAB
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Re: best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by PAB » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:33 pm

It's kind of funny where I see all those pictures of Garmins with ridiculous MPH's posted, my GPS doesnt get above 4 MPH very often. I run my dogs 5 to 6 days a week, mostly on cottontail. Whats funny to me is I've won LPH trials with these "slow dogs", and SPO trials with Midwest style dogs entered. I do see dogs that average over 5 mph, but they are not on the line very often. The MPH goes up when they skirt the pack, or swing on the checks. I've judged over 150 licensed trials, SPO and LPH, and dont really see dogs running any faster than my own dogs run a rabbit. GPS is the greatest thing to come along for running dogs, and the worse thing for running dogs. Lazy people sit there and watch their unit, instead of going and watching what is really going on with their dogs.

Shady Grove Beagles
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Re: best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by Shady Grove Beagles » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:45 am

Good post PAB.
I don't own a Garmin unit and don't have much of an idea of how fast or how far my dogs are running.
I have spent many hours hunting hare in Maine,New Hampshire and Vermont with friends that use the Garmins.We all are running hounds that have backgrounds from Large Pack on Hare and Mid-West hounds.
I can tell you that we regularly have some super hard pounding runs that can go on for over two hours of sustained running.We have days where the Garmin says the dogs have run over 20 miles but I don't remember the dogs running any faster than 4- 4.5 MPH and they certainly aren't slow!
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warddog
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Re: best run to catch style. (STUD)

Post by warddog » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:22 am

Shady Grove Beagles wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:45 am
Good post PAB.
I don't own a Garmin unit and don't have much of an idea of how fast or how far my dogs are running.
I have spent many hours hunting hare in Maine,New Hampshire and Vermont with friends that use the Garmins.We all are running hounds that have backgrounds from Large Pack on Hare and Mid-West hounds.
I can tell you that we regularly have some super hard pounding runs that can go on for over two hours of sustained running.We have days where the Garmin says the dogs have run over 20 miles but I don't remember the dogs running any faster than 4- 4.5 MPH and they certainly aren't slow!
I agree Shady as I do NOT own a Garmin either nor do I plan on getting one. I never needed such technology to rabbit hunt cottontails with my dogs as I can pretty much tell, just like with coon hounds at night where I couldn't see them, what they are doing. Never hunted hare so that may be a different story but I know when a cottontail gets jumped it is normally gonna circle back to pretty close to that point. I can tell how fast they are running by whether I am freezing my back side off to get a shot or not. LOL Dogs running and applying pressure be it fast, slow or in between is gonna circle that cottontail and if that doesn't take all day then the dogs have done what they are supposed to do in my book. Never ran behind the dogs while rabbit hunting but have watched them as they track the rabbit and seen the tricks that cottontails use try to confuse the dogs with, to the point that I have watched the dogs run across a log over a ditch or stream. Although I did not see the rabbit do so I'm pretty sure it did when several dogs cross that same log that I had seen a rabbit cross in previous hunts. While hunting cottontail I almost never have a run that takes the dogs out of hearing and if so I start to wonder as around here cottontails very seldom do so, neither do they normally run for two hours as they are pretty much coyote hunted to death and normally find shelter before that.

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